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Claimants can only claim cont ESA via UC system in full service areas???
We are not in a full service area but the indications are that DWP are telling people that they will not accept an ESA1 for a CESA claim, any written claim will be ‘rejected’, and the claimant required to phone UC and ask specifically for ‘new-style ESA’.
We are still gathering details about this but a look at the 2013 Claims and Payments Regulations shows nothing that excludes written claims. This just seems to be for the administrative convenience of the DWP.
Has anyone else seen this happening, and any successes in challenging it?
Hi Andrew, my client group are mostly cancer patients and their carers. Many quite clearly have an entitlement to C-ESA. I queried what would happen with a Job Centre Plus where UC is being rolled out fully in December. This is the reply:
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“Once Hastings rolls out to the full service a new claim for contributory ESA/JSA will be termed new style ESA/JSA. Claimants can make an application for just new style ESA/JSA or make a duell claim along with Universal Credit.
To make an application just for the new style ESA they would ring the Service Centre on 0345 600 4272, and the application form (UCESA1) would be sent via email to them for completion, along with the details they will need for verification of ID and any supporting evidence (fit note etc).
Once they have completed the form, they would then need to contact the Service Centre to make an appointment for a face to face interview with a Work Coach to hand in their application, for their ID to be verified and a Claimant Commitment to be agreed. The form and all supporting evidence including ID verification will be scanned and sent directly to the Service Centre for processing.
New style ESA will last for 365 days unless the claimant is in the Support Group and will be paid fortnightly.”
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What concerns me greatly is the amount of red tape, scrutiny, engagement that seems to be expected from our client group which in the past have been exempt from face-to-face assessments for the LWC (all support group)! Some of my client by the time they make sense of what is happening to them, are having a major operation, just had one and for many sadly are preparing or starting chemotherapy! They are shocked and stressed… so this is insane to expect them to go down for an interview with a work coach, seriously. I have had the experience in a gateway area of a single claimant who was diagnosed with potential pancreatic cancer and was sent to have a major operation out of her immediate area.. believe it or not I could not stop the work coach from calling her for quite a while, despite the ‘fit note’ (3 months) the suspected pancreatic tumour and the major operation, the client was called in the week after her operation… eventually she was re-transferred to old style ESA and awarded PIP but in the meantime, I expect that in full roll out and where a ‘return’ to IR-ESA will not be possible, I expect some serious problems.
Let’s just hope some of the horror stories are sufficient to cause a national outcry. Something has to give eventually, surely?
So the claimant is sent the form by email, and then hands it in at an interview? That reads like they must print it themselves, is that the case?
We have been told the following by DWP:
The Universal Credit system does not gather information or assess entitlement to a contributory based benefit following a claim to UC, although advice may be provided about potential entitlement at the UC interview. There is no access to JSA online in UC areas, but claimants may claim contributory JSA by phone. We are aware however, that signposting and advice regarding claiming contributory benefits alongside Universal Credit could be enhanced and we are currently looking at the best way to achieve this and improve the customer journey.
The guidance for telephone agents states the following:
When a claimant(s) contacts Universal Credit to make a claim for new-style Jobseeker’s Allowance contribution-based (JSA)(CNS), the telephony agent (TA) determines if they wish to claim:
- dual Universal Credit and JSA (CNS)
- JSA (CNS) onlyIf the claim is for JSA (CNS) only the TA establishes if the claimant(s) has been through the Pathfinder questions or if they have a live Universal Credit claim.
My greatest worry is that whereas in the past we had a fairly clear position for our client group enshrined in regulations, now we don’t. I expect major problems with clients who will want to claim ‘new style ESA’ , then as their condition progresses, the partner reduces working hours, the person affected by cancer may be awarded PIP and the partner decide to claim Carer’s Allowance and reduce their working hours to manage and not to earn over £110 net a week… and then comes UC when in the past Income Support applied. But UC is full of conditionalities, e.g. both party (i.e. including the cancer patient) as it stands, will have to sign the “claimant’s commitment” and the carer will have to endure the Work Coach.. and more…..... and there will be many variations on this theme with my client group. We need urgent action and review of all this!
to Jon (CHDCA)
Hi Jon, well… I don’t know. Even expecting that the client will be able to receive this by email is a big assumption. I have clients who do not use email, yes.. some prefer not to… and then clearly there is the printing issue!..I am quite sure (it will be a hassle but) we will manage to convince them to send a paper copy to the client, just more hassles. It is hard enough on occasion to get a PIP1 to start a PIP application on paper now! (I have clients who lose their voice box for example and cannot call the DWP).
Michele I feel your pain. I have just come off the phone from a clients wife as they have been asked to go into the centre of Edinburgh for an identity interview rather than their local JCP office. He is terminally ill, but unaware of the fact, and is not fit enough to travel- his chemo had to be delayed for a week due to low blood counts. They haven’t even claimed ESA in a full service area just a normal ESA claim, thanks goodness they haven’t had the joy of trying to make a claim in a full service area and going through the UC rigmarole. She’s going to go into the local office to try to talk sense with a member of staff there that has been very helpful in the past.
To Annief
My view: he shouldn’t travel, forget it, it puts him at risk. Are you a Macmillan Welfare Benefits Adviser? Has a DS1500 been issued for this man? There should be a patient copy. With this in hand, his wife should be able to make sure that her husband does not have to attend such identity interview, and a Macmillan Welfare Benefits Adviser can offer her the support that she needs in communications with JCP. But this is also the dreaded part of the story, terminal illness and carers.
To Annief
Ask your client’s about the name of the Macmillan Cancer Nurse Specialist (CNS) who is dealing with his case and her telephone number. If the client agrees you can contact the CNS and ask about the DS1500 if she doesn’t know and the copy might be with the CNS. In any case if terminally ill this should be addressed.
We are not in a full service area but the indications are that DWP are telling people that they will not accept an ESA1 for a CESA claim, any written claim will be ‘rejected’, and the claimant required to phone UC and ask specifically for ‘new-style ESA’.
We are still gathering details about this but a look at the 2013 Claims and Payments Regulations shows nothing that excludes written claims. This just seems to be for the administrative convenience of the DWP.
Has anyone else seen this happening, and any successes in challenging it?
Hi Andrew, I took a look at the 2013 Claims and Payments reg. You are correct (unless I missed on something) ESA claims can be made by telephone and in writing. Additionally, we may be able to use this to prevent people making a claim for ‘New Style ESA’ (read contributory ESA) without a claim for UC, to protect them from having to attend an interview at a JCP office etc. I do not expect that this will work with ‘New Style JSA’ (Contributory) because Part 2 reg 19. already states that they will have to attend an appropriate office….
However, with ESA the problem remains when these clients end up with a partner who may have to make a UC claim (instead of IS ) as they did in the past… so not out of the bush!
To Annief
My view: he shouldn’t travel, forget it, it puts him at risk. Are you a Macmillan Welfare Benefits Adviser? Has a DS1500 been issued for this man? There should be a patient copy. With this in hand, his wife should be able to make sure that her husband does not have to attend such identity interview, and a Macmillan Welfare Benefits Adviser can offer her the support that she needs in communications with JCP. But this is also the dreaded part of the story, terminal illness and carers.
DS1500 has been done and I’ve managed to transfer the ESA claim to Special rules, but you are right, he shouldn’t need to go through all this. I think the problem was that he claimed under normal rules and he is not aware a DS1500 has been done - harmful information for him. I’m afraid. I’m not a MacMillan Adviser but I am an adviser to people affected by cancer as Maggie’s is a Cancer Support centre
Bless DWP’s cotton socks…
Colleagues have been getting rightly outraged at UC’s mission creep on Contributory ESA only claims and the insistence that they can only take such claims via a UC claim in full digital service areas.
However pleased to report that on several occasions from a number of Maggie’s Centres in full digital areas, an ESA1 or ESA (UC) has done the trick, sent direct to ESA benefit centres
DWP are right to say that on UC transition to full service “legacy benefits” are shut down. But the point is Ir-ESA is a “legacy benefit” and Contributory (aka new style) ESA is not. The claims and payment regs - revised to take account of UC in 2013 - have not changed re ESA claims, so a claim to ESA by phone or ESA1 remains lawful - just don’t try to claim Ir-ESA.
I suspect DWP bright young things have designed an operational process without asking a grown up about what is a legacy benefit and are now trying to impose a not fit for purpose model by assertion . Just as in live service gateway areas, they wrongly assert that you can’t escape the UC lobster pot…
Is there a downloadable version of the UCESA1 form yet? I have the scanned version posted earlier in this thread.
Not as far as I’m aware - we have asked for it to be put on gov.uk but I don’t think it has yet
Thanks. I’ll use the scan and send to direct to ESA processing for our area. Client has more than £16,000 so no point going via UC if we can avoid it (full service)