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Receiving appeal bundles; and contacting DWP
Hello
I’ve had notification from HMCTS that DWP have sent their response to an appeal. Appellant has had the bundle but I haven’t (I’m down as rep).
This is the second time recently and I’m wondering if this is happening to anyone else (and, suspiciously, if it is purposeful!). Has anyone else had this problem?
Whilst I’m here (I’m new to Rightsnet - I only do PIP claims) - what do you do if you’re trying to contact the DWP in relation to an MR or an appeal? In the old days there used to be separate numbers and it was easier to speak to people in the relevant DWP departments. Is there an alternative to just hanging on the phone to the main number for several lifetimes??
Any thoughts gratefully received.
Ben
Search the forum and you’ll have your answer. Clue: the answer is very much “yes”.
I put a post on here about this exact thing yesterday. You’re definitely not the only one
On the point of any other means to contact….you might want to sign up to officially the longest running discussion forum on rightsnet….
https://www.rightsnet.org.uk/Forums/viewthread/15574/P120
There are PIP MR/appeal numbers (or at least there were on the version I just checked) but I can’t say I’ve ever needed to use them myself.
Search the forum and you’ll have your answer. Clue: the answer is very much “yes”.
So it would seem Mike! Thanks.
On the point of any other means to contact….you might want to sign up to officially the longest running discussion forum on rightsnet….
https://www.rightsnet.org.uk/Forums/viewthread/15574/P120
There are PIP MR/appeal numbers (or at least there were on the version I just checked) but I can’t say I’ve ever needed to use them myself.
Helpful Robbo thank you - I’ll check in with Daphne.
Hello
I’ve had notification from HMCTS that DWP have sent their response to an appeal. Appellant has had the bundle but I haven’t (I’m down as rep).
This is the second time recently and I’m wondering if this is happening to anyone else (and, suspiciously, if it is purposeful!). Has anyone else had this problem?
Whilst I’m here (I’m new to Rightsnet - I only do PIP claims) - what do you do if you’re trying to contact the DWP in relation to an MR or an appeal? In the old days there used to be separate numbers and it was easier to speak to people in the relevant DWP departments. Is there an alternative to just hanging on the phone to the main number for several lifetimes??
Any thoughts gratefully received.
Ben
It was Elliot on here that introduced me to Hanlon’s Razor that i have made good use of recently.
We are in a world of regular post strikes. The mail is in chaos and loads is going missing…
Fair point 😊
We frequently receive HMCTS emails informing us that the DWP appeal papers have been made available and yet we haven’t received anything and neither has the appellant.
We also have the issue that many of our caseworkers are hybrid working and in the interests of reducing paper files we scan the appeal papers to our Case Management system, but it’s time consuming and frustrating when the scanner jams, and appeal bundles can be huge.
We wonder whether DWP provide the bundles to HMCTS electronically and that is why they receive them sooner than any of the other parties - so can we request electronic bundles?
Does anyone know if that’s an option? If so, how is the request made?
Friday rant time. As polite as I can. Some of this is just a North West thing I think but…
DWP send HMCTS a master version. That forms the electronic version provided to tribunal members. A paper version ought to be sent out to all other parties because, as yet, allegedly, the electronic version cannot be replicated outside of the HMCTS system tribunals use. At present I understand the problems to be:
1 - there are few clerks left to create the paper versions in a timely, consistent manner.
2 - the numbering of the paper versions differs from the electronic version made available to tribunals. I have come across this repeatedly and… well it’s insane and lots of other words prefixed with “in…”.
In the past HMCTS would be nice if your bundle hadn’t turned up from DWP and would do it themselves. They had no legal obligation to do so.
HMCTS retain the responsibility for the distribution of subsequent evidence etc. under the Procedure Rules but not the original papers. In reality they don’t seem to be taking responsibility for the latter either at present and are suggesting that copies should be sent to DWP directly as DWP can add to the electronic version. The fact that DWP are also short of staff doesn’t appear to have registered or matter. The fact that HMCTS talk piously about “the interests of justice” and how “justice delayed is no justice at all” sticks in the throat quite a lot at present. It’s a pretty solid abdication of responsibility all round really.
Previously at our TUGs and other HMCTS events we established fairly clearly that not only did HMCTS staff not all know about the DWP email address they should be using for stuff like this and more but DWP staff had to some extent forgotten about it too and hadn’t always read or acted upon the emails they did receive. I believe the word “omnishambles” was invented with just this kind of thing in mind.
In practice we find ourselves in the surreal position where there are not enough clerks to scan and email papers out other than seemingly randomly; not enough clerks to get directions requests to judges and so on. The delays are huge and, if we don’t send stuff to DWP we’ll doubtless get some of the blame for those delays when the real issue is a lack of staff; an abdication of responsibility and so on.
DWP send HMCTS a master version. That forms the electronic version provided to tribunal members. A paper version ought to be sent out to all other parties because, as yet, allegedly, the electronic version cannot be replicated outside of the HMCTS system tribunals use. At present I understand the problems to be:
.
Just on this point, the electronic version can be replicated. I know that because in a case where the bundle didn’t turn up I asked for a judicial direction that HMCTS send it to me and they did - as a PDF. I can understand that they don’t want to do this routinely. They are short of staff and it’s the DWP’s job.
The problem I’ve found with going direct to DWP about a missing bundle is: where do I go to? I don’t know who the appeals officer in the case is because I haven’t had the bundle…
I fear you may have misunderstood what you’ve been sent Paul.
HMCTS can produce electronic appeal papers in the sense that they can get a clerk to scan in said papers and produce a pdf. When they get it right this is what I and many of my appellants get as an EA 10 reasonable adjustment. They are very very unwilling to do this, even when a judge’s direction tells them to do it, as it consumes an inordinate amount of clerking time.
However, that is not the same as what is produced for tribunal members. The paper there are contained within an entire software application with sections tabbed on screen and so on. There is no magic button along the lines of “Print to PDF”. No opportunity for tribunal members to take the papers and switch them to a different device etc. There is simply some kind of logon to the system and a view only access. I obviously haven’t seen this myself but it’s something I have picked up from multiple sources, not least when faced with the repeated farce of telephone hearings where it quickly becomes apparent that papers I have sent in are located in a completely different location and with a different numbering system to the paper copy held by myself and my appellant.
What you will have had will be the former not the latter. It’s important to understand that I have posted elsewhere today the paper papers no longer replicate the naming/numbering used in the software application. Their page 72 is not necessarily your page 72 and so on. A farce really.