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Childcare costs in respect of a period prior to a UC claim
The ADM (F7062-F7063) used to say that childcare costs paid by a claimant after they had claimed UC but in respect of a period prior to the claim could be included in the award for the AP in which the payment was made.
On 6 May 2022, the ADM was amended, and it now states that such costs cannot be included, as they relate to a period prior to the claim was made.
But, as far as I can see, the Regs (Universal Credit Regulations 2013, Reg. 34A) are clear that such costs CAN be included in the award.
Does anyone have any idea what the legislative basis could be for the new guidance?
(I have made a FOI request about this, but I’m not holding my breath to see if I get anything useful back!)
Perhaps they are guilty of something I often do, which you have corrected me on a couple of times, and that is not reading all the way through to the end. It’s only when you get as far as Reg 34A(3) that the legal position becomes clear. Without that paragraph one would assume that an assessment period in respect of which charges have been paid would have to fall during the UC award.
Perhaps I am missing something but I have pulled up ADM and it does still seem correct?
F7062 Where the claimant has paid childcare costs
1. before the commencement of the UC award in respect of a period after the commencement of the award, or
2. on or after the commencement of the UC award in respect of a period before the award the months prior to the commencement of the UC award should be treated notionally as assessment periods in order to determine whether the criteria described in paragraph F7061 as regards attribution to a particular assessment period are met.
Note 1: in such cases, each preceding month should be treated as beginning on the same day as it would have done if it were an assessment period.
Note 2: childcare costs cannot be reimbursed for any period when UC is not in payment.
F7063 This provision enables costs to be attributable to an assessment period (AP1) if they were
1. paid in AP1 for childcare that was provided in a notional assessment period or
2. paid in either of the two notional assessment periods preceding AP1 for childcare that is provided in AP1.
Note: the provision does not allow charges to be attributed to an assessment period if they were both paid in a notional assessment period and were in respect of childcare that was provided before the first assessment period.
Perhaps they are guilty of something I often do, which you have corrected me on a couple of times, and that is not reading all the way through to the end. It’s only when you get as far as Reg 34A(3) that the legal position becomes clear. Without that paragraph one would assume that an assessment period in respect of which charges have been paid would have to fall during the UC award.
Hmm, not sure. The whole of F7062-F7063 is based on 34A(3)!
Perhaps I am missing something but I have pulled up ADM and it does still seem correct?
They’ve added Note 2 to F7062. Granted, that in itself isn’t clear that the guidance has changed, especially when one reads the note to F7063, but they’ve also changed the last sentence in Example 1, and that is explicit.
I’ve now had two clients who have been refused such costs in the last 6 weeks. One is out of pocket (I believe!) by over £400!
FOI response:
The ADM is an organic document and is frequently updated to reflect changes in the law, or where it is decided further clarification will aid the department’s decision makers. On this occasion, the ADM was changed following an approach from a decision maker about an individual’s award of UC. However, that part of the ADM does not currently reflect the legal and policy intention and therefore we have decided to revisit this section again to further clarify and strengthen the advice on payment of childcare costs.
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/universal_credit_childcare_costs_2#incoming-2189437
Well there we go, good spot Charles and good on the DWP for fixing it.
The concept of the ADM as an “organic document” is rather terrifying though. Perhaps they meant a ‘living document’.
The “organic document” has now been corrected as per the above. ;)
Out of curiosity, I queried the OpenAI test version with this question.
Q: Why are childcare costs paid by a claimant after they had claimed Universal Credit but in respect of a period prior to the claim included in the award for the AP in which the payment was made.
A: Childcare costs paid by a claimant after they had claimed Universal Credit but in respect of a period prior to the claim are included in the award for the assessment period in which the payment was made in order to ensure that the claimant is not disadvantaged by the timing of their claim.
Interesting.
Yes, interesting!
Can you try a similar question:
Can childcare costs paid by a claimant after they had claimed Universal Credit but in respect of a period prior to the claim be included in the award for the AP in which the payment was made?
I did, it said yes.
That’s good, thanks.
How does one get access to this OpenAI test version?
That’s good, thanks.
How does one get access to this OpenAI test version?
I’d be cautious about trying to use the outputs/answers above with DWP.
I put this question in How good are Brentford this season?
And it told me:
Brentford have been excellent this season. They are currently in third place in the Championship table, the second tier of English football, and are well placed to challenge for promotion to the Premier League. They have been particularly impressive in attack, scoring the third most goals in the league, and their defensive record has also been strong.
Which is patently incorrect.
Just noticed this which explains why
Our default models’ training data cuts off in 2021, so they may not have knowledge of current events.
[ Edited: 19 Dec 2022 at 01:44 pm by Paul_Treloar_AgeUK ]Paul, someone will have to break this to you gently. You have had a wonderful dream. In your dream in was Christmas 2022 and Brentford were in their second season as a PL club. Now you have woken up, it is in fact spring 2021 and Brentford have just lost to Bournemouth in the play-off semi finals. Boris Johnson is PM. Ivan Toney is joining Man U as soon as the window opens. OpenAI knows its stuff
Paul, someone will have to break this to you gently. You have had a wonderful dream. In your dream in was Christmas 2022 and Brentford were in their second season as a PL club. Now you have woken up, it is in fact spring 2021 and Brentford have just lost to Bournemouth in the play-off semi finals. Boris Johnson is PM. Ivan Toney is joining Man U as soon as the window opens. OpenAI knows its stuff
Oh no, you’re ruined Christmas…..