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Forum Home  →  Discussion  →  Decision making and appeals  →  Thread

UC journal response to a late MR (refusal to engage with it) against a decision made Jan 2024 for wider social policy issues

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Andyp5 Citizens Advice Bridport & District
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Reply on UC Journal to MR lodged on journal on client’s behalf


‘12/9/2024

Hi *************
Unfortunately you have1 month from the decision to ask for Mandatory reconsideration. This was in January of this year & could not be sent for MR.
*******
Middlesborough Service Centre’.

 

 

 

Daphne
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You knew that would tempt me - I’ll send it up via stakeholder inbox ;)

Elliot Kent
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Unfortunately these sorts of messages are extremely common, as is gatekeeping of MRs for all manner of spurious reasons.

As a counterpoint, I had a case earlier this year where I needed to request any time revision of a decision made in 2021. I explained the request, explained why no time limit applied and asked for it to be sent off to a DM. Much to my surprise, the Case Manager duly sent the request off and the decision was revised shortly after that without any further fuss - directly preventing an eviction as it happened.

Made for a nice change of pace.

SarahBatty
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I saw a similar case last week:

Client: “I would like to request a mandatory reconsideration of the Sanction decision applied to my UC. I did have good cause for ....”

UC: “Thank you for the journal. We cannot raise a reconsideration as it has been more than a month since the sanction ended. Please see the letter uploaded that would of informed you of this”

Andyp5 Citizens Advice Bridport & District
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Daphne - 24 September 2024 12:35 PM

You knew that would tempt me - I’ll send it up via stakeholder inbox ;)

Thanks Daphne, phew (we are always really grateful though)!

Andyp5 Citizens Advice Bridport & District
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Just for completeness etc etc

In R(CJ) and SG v Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (ESA): [2017] UKUT 324 (AAC) ; [2018] AACR 5 - GOV.UK (http://www.gov.uk) the panel of three judges stated that where a person is late requesting a MR and DWP responds by saying that the application is late and doesn’t meet the criteria for extending the time limit, claimants will have a statutory right of appeal to the First-tier Tribunal.

https://www.gov.uk/administrative-appeals-tribunal-decisions/r-cj-and-sg-v-secretary-of-state-for-work-and-pensions-esa-2017-ukut-324-aac

Judge Wikely held in CUC/1389/2019 (paragraphs 20 – 30). When considering the
notification of the decision, that regulation 7(1) (b) of the Universal Credit, Personal
Independence Payment, Jobseeker’s Allowance and Employment Support Allowance
(Decisions and Appeals) Regulations 2013.

Provides that the requirement to carry out a mandatory reconsideration before a right
of appeal is established only applies where the decision notice includes a statement to that
effect.

We are going to advise our client with a learning disability that he can appeal direct to HMCTS.

File Attachments

Paul_Treloar_AgeUK
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Couldn’t you just reply “The one month time limit for MR is in ADM 3049. Please turn over the page to ADM 3050 for guidance on late MR applications”?

Andyp5 Citizens Advice Bridport & District - 24 September 2024 11:17 AM

Reply on UC Journal to MR lodged on journal on client’s behalf


‘12/9/2024

Hi *************
Unfortunately you have1 month from the decision to ask for Mandatory reconsideration. This was in January of this year & could not be sent for MR.
*******
Middlesborough Service Centre’.

 

 

 

Andyp5 Citizens Advice Bridport & District
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Paul_Treloar_AgeUK - 24 September 2024 03:13 PM

Couldn’t you just reply “The one month time limit for MR is in ADM 3049. Please turn over the page to ADM 3050 for guidance on late MR applications”?

Andyp5 Citizens Advice Bridport & District - 24 September 2024 11:17 AM

Reply on UC Journal to MR lodged on journal on client’s behalf


‘12/9/2024

Hi *************
Unfortunately you have1 month from the decision to ask for Mandatory reconsideration. This was in January of this year & could not be sent for MR.
*******
Middlesborough Service Centre’.

It did occur to us Paul (thanks for the response), but for expediency and for qualitive reasons i.e. long long delays and incoherent MRN’s that don’t identify even descriptors a client scored points on.

Its so much easier (we’ve had practice), to sometimes bypass the system lodge the appeal directly with HMCTS. HMCTS issue directions then the onus is on the DWP to take some actual responsibility.

The CPAG case law dates back to 2017.

 

 

Elliot Kent
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Paul_Treloar_AgeUK - 24 September 2024 03:13 PM

Couldn’t you just reply “The one month time limit for MR is in ADM 3049. Please turn over the page to ADM 3050 for guidance on late MR applications”?

Bit optimistic I think Paul… My experience in the trenches of attempting to argue with case managers is that the default response to any attempt to reference authority is that either you’ll just get the first message repeated back to you or you’ll be told that the guidance you’ve quoted doesn’t apply to UC (for reasons which are never articulated).

Elliot Kent
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Another common one from a different thread:

FThomas - 24 September 2024 04:00 PM

we are now in a situation where UC are refusing to raise a MR because they state that the tenant’s “UC award has been calculated in accordance with current policy put in place by the Government and unless the legislation changes there is nothing we can do..” and further advising our tenant to take it up with her MP.

Andyp5 Citizens Advice Bridport & District
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Elliot Kent - 24 September 2024 03:43 PM
Paul_Treloar_AgeUK - 24 September 2024 03:13 PM

Couldn’t you just reply “The one month time limit for MR is in ADM 3049. Please turn over the page to ADM 3050 for guidance on late MR applications”?

Bit optimistic I think Paul… My experience in the trenches of attempting to argue with case managers is that the default response to any attempt to reference authority is that either you’ll just get the first message repeated back to you or you’ll be told that the guidance you’ve quoted doesn’t apply to UC (for reasons which are never articulated).

Thanks both, I am really grateful for this latter discussion, for wider social policy issues to get it out there.

I take your point Paul and erm errrrr we would but…......errrrrrrrrrr whatever Elliot said.

Paul_Treloar_AgeUK
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It’s not easy being facetious on t’internet is it?

Elliot Kent
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Haha.. sorry Paul you’ve touched a nerve!

Andyp5 Citizens Advice Bridport & District
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Paul_Treloar_AgeUK - 24 September 2024 04:44 PM

It’s not easy being facetious on t’internet is it?

Or utilitarian

Dan Manville
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I just sling an appeal in against these. In “why haven’t you got the MRN I explain that they’ve considered the MR request and, contrary to R(CJ)... they’ve refused to accept it so the right of appeal arises.

Never fails.

Rosie W
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SarahBatty - 24 September 2024 01:27 PM

I saw a similar case last week:

Client: “I would like to request a mandatory reconsideration of the Sanction decision applied to my UC. I did have good cause for ....”

UC: “Thank you for the journal. We cannot raise a reconsideration as it has been more than a month since the sanction ended. Please see the letter uploaded that would of informed you of this”

I had “you cannot request a reconsideration until the sanction has ended”.