Hope you can help, I've sent part 2 of the DLA form to the doctor but they want to charge the client £36. Can they do this? If they can what is the client supposed to do as she does not have this money?

Yes they can. In these situations we don't complete the last statement we simply write please contact G.P. (or other appriate health worker you have highlighted in section 1). This achieves 2 things , the DWP pick up the cost of the GP report but more importantly if they don't and your clients DLA claim is refused it opens up a grounds for appeal and alternative evidence route, although you will have too pay for a report at this stage.

Sorry to disagree with my colleague from North Wiltshire CAB but no they can't - if you are asking the GP to sign the back of Part 2 then they can't - it is part of the GP Contract - I would contact the Practice Manager and remind them of this - alternatively contact the local PCT so that they can have a word with the relevant GP

however, if you are asking the GP for a factual report then the GP is entitled to ask for a fee as they are private contractors.

Hope this helps

Shabir Elahi
Blackburn with Darwen Borough Council

Sorry but Wiltshire is right. The information a GP is contracted to supply is based on Schedule 9to the NHS (General Medical SErvices) Regs 1992.

DLA is not included in the schedule and this is why the dept pay £17.50 to the GP for completed med. ev. for DLA purposes and not for IB.

The document is at the BMA website somewhere.

The DLA forms have also had any reference to GP's removed from the sections marked statement from someone who knows you.

The upshot is that there is no compelling reason for a GP to complete a report for DLA other than for a fee.

Sorry.

Sorry but I think North Wilts are wrong and Blackburn are right. :

Schedule 9 of General Medical Service Regulations describes a ‘medical certificate’ to: ‘support a claim to prove inability to work or incapacity for self support for the purposes of an award by the Secretary of State’. I think that DLA and AA should be treated as relating to 'incapacity for self-support'. The reason that a fee is paid when a questionnaire is sent is that this is not simply a certificate but production of a specific report. The DWP certainly seem to think so and their and Pensions’ Guide Registered Medical Practitioners. (IB204, which can be found at http://www.dwp.gov.uk/medical/medicalib204/app5_00.asp ) explains that:

“Disability Living Allowance (DLA) and Attendance Allowance (AA) are Social Security Benefits for people who need help with personal care as a result of disability. Payment is independent of income or National Insurance contributions. DLA is available to those under the age of 65. It has both care and mobility components. The care component is paid at three rates and the mobility component at two rates. AA is available to those over the age of 65. It's qualifying medical criteria are similar to those for the highest and middle rate for the DLA care component. There is no mobility component in AA.

Claim Pack

Your patient may ask you to complete a statement at the back of the claim pack. A brief note on their disabling condition(s) is all that is required and it may help the Decision-Maker to process the claim quickly. A fee is not paid for signing this statement. NHS GENERAL PRACTITIONERS ARE REQUIRED TO PROVIDE THIS STATEMENT ON REQUEST WITHOUT CHARGE TO THEIR PATIENTS.”

There doesn't in my view appear to be any doubt that GPs SHOULD supply AT LEAST the basic information indicated in the IB204, and it is our experience that in practice claims, for AA especially, supported in this way are processed more rapidly and with greater chances of success than those which are not. That said there are GPs who refuse to provide this (probably because they are holding out for the fee paid by the DWP if they send a questionnaire) and whilst we always try to argue that it is both in the interests of their patients and a requirement of their contract sometimes you have to give up banging your head against a brick wall and try to find another source for supporting information. GPs can charge for any further reports, eg for revisions or appeals, and increasingly they are, not least I suspect because they are unable to distinguish between CLS funded agencies who can pay quite large fees for these and other agencies who do not have any money available for this.

Yous are all getting muddled up. The GP should not charge for section 2, after all its only one simple little page - it would not be reasonable to pay it and North Wilts I think takes the correct approach. Advise client to urge the dept to obtain a factual report. If the dept doesnt get one then the client may or may not choose to pay for one themselves. However if doctor doesnt complete the back of sect 2 the client should get someone to fill it out, even if it is a friend or relative but it should preferably be a health professional. It says on the back of sect 2 that a carer, relative or friend could complete it.

Donna,

This is a common problem with GP's in the Waltham Forest area, I just send the claim forms of and let the DBC request an EMP or GP factual report, this means they pay.

Depending on the numbers ou could always discuss cases with us/me, I can take on cases at present, email me at [email protected]

Gary Martin
Welfare Benefits Caseworker/Supervisor

Sorry been on holiday so delayed response.

Blackburn & Bristol miss the point, although they mention it DLA is not a work benefit(ICB) so GP only has to complete proforma from the DBC/DBU. But the point is my advice was based around dealing with the specific problem.i.e. gp wont sign without fee, and claim must be submitted by a deadline or client loses money. It may be something to persue as social policy but a quick fix is needed to beat deadline.The benefit at appeals has always been beneficial in most cases when attempting to show the evidence used at initial decision stage is not from the source claimant requested it be obtained fom.
It is a especially useful tool to obtain specialist reports without a cost to claimants

I am having the same problem in my area. Although on the forms we are stating that doctor should be contacted for information (as per other replies), I am finding that on occasion doctors are not being asked for medical evidence, and a couple of my claimants have had their claims refused. We are obviously appealing, and have stated that we will be supplying medical evidence for these, but again client's are then being charged to get this medical evidence to support their appeals. One doctor is going to bring up at a local meeting to see if this is becoming more common, as this is obviously detrimental to claimants if they are being left to get necessary information to support their applications for benefits, which should really be getting asked for at the outset (so the doctor felt anyway).............

In Scotland we still have legal advice and assistance surely some of your client's will meet the financial criteria and be able to get medical evidence via that route.

i think the point keeps getting missed in this thread.

GP's should not receive payment for completion of DLA forms. the link provided by paulmoorhead is to official government guidance on the matter.

i haven't experienced any problem of this kind in birmingham, and previous posts suggest it's a localised problem not a national one.

i vaguely recall there was a row about this between GPs and the gov't way back in the days of the DHSS. afaik the gov't won, and GP's don't get paid for the statement on the claim form, but do get paid if the DWP wants them to complete a FR.

as an expediency, i would send the claim forms off without a GP's statement rather than delay the claim, but basically the problem needs to be tackled with the GP's who insist they want payment. if they are not persuaded by the manual, the matter could be raised with the DWP and the Department of Health. They might even be able to dig out the old minutes on the discussions with the BMA. The GP's could raise the matter with the BMA or GMC if they feel the issue should be re-opened. If individual GP's make unilateral decisions to charge, they can be challenged. The N in NHS stands for national...

i don't think the LSC contract is the answer to this problem. the government has already refused payment to ALL GPs for completion of DLA forms. If SOME GP's are going to receive payment for it, in my view, it threatens to be a rot that spreads...

i wouldn't blame the LSC for taking a view that that if the government pays, it should come out of the DWP's budget, not the legal help budget...

jj

I raised at a local Social Policy meeting the issue of GPs charging for evidence (DLA, appeals, bus passes, housing forms...) and was told that the group had attempted action on this before my time. They had written to all the local GP's.
Unfortunately this meant it suddenly occured to the GPs who were not charging that they could, and that the charges increased towards the top end of the scale....

We end up arranging representation for appeals with LSC contract holders in some cases largely because we know they can pay the GPs fees, and if we assist the client (even where this is within our abilities) we have no funds for it.

I understood that GPs can refuse to complete the Statement on the DLA form, but, if they do fill it in, they cannot charge for it. Cant quote regulations though.

CLS route seems unfair and lengthy for advisers, individuals not in CLA system.

paulmoorhouse posted this link earlier - sorry, i got his name wrong.

it's not a reg. but _is_ an official government publication reflecting policy.

it is specific to DLA claim form statements, leaving GP's with a lot of flexibility for other charges, but not this one.

jj

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/medical/medicalib204/app5_00.asp

Sorry about being so late with this response but here goes anyway. We had similar problems with some GPs who were quoting a report about reducing the burden of paperwork for them. I contacted the cabinet office (who published the report) and they passed me onto Dr Roger Thomas, Medical Manager for the DWP Corporate Medical Group.

He wrote back saying, "Although it is not essential that a doctor completes the statement on section 2 they are required to do so when asked by a patient (or representative)."

Dr Thomas has clarified that this applies to the 'new' AA form and also to the single section DLA form being tested in North London.

Having said all of the above it is debateable whether many GPs would write enough in that statement to persuade a DM to make an award anyway! For certain conditions such as dementia though, they can do enough in that small space!

Picking up on another point about sending forms to GPs to complete(and maybe missing the 6 week time limit) we send a photocopy of the statement page to one or more of the following: GP/nurse/care manager/physio etc. If they come back in time we attach them to the claim and if not, we forward them to the DBC later. As long as the client's name and NINo are clearly marked we have no problems with these multiple statements being accepted by the DBC.

I am very interested to hear that you have a statement in writing to the effect that GPs are required to complete the statement if requested to do so. I have been having a lot of difficulties with GPs who tell their patients that DWP will write to them for medical evidence and then the DWP fails to do so and the claim is refused. In cases of AA it is frequently not possible to persuade the applicant to go to appeal. Is it possible you could email a copy of the letter or send me full postal details of Dr Roger Thomas.
[email protected]

Hi Elaine

We don't have a scanner here so I will post or fax the correspondence to you if you let me have your contact details. I will also post it to Shaun to see if it can be displayed for others.(Hi Shaun! Thanks Shaun!)

Keith

Thanks to Keith, the replies to him from Dr. Roger Thomas, Medical Manager of the DWP Corporate Medical Group - regarding GP's being required to complete DLA/AA claim form statements - are now available on rightsnet.

The following seperate discussion forum thread highlighting on-line BMA guidance concerning GP's obligations to complete medical certicates and reports may also be useful -

http://www.rightsnet.org.uk/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=100&topic_id=876&mesg_id=876&page=#878