We are a benefits unit based in an NHS psychiatric hospital. You may well have heard of the new NHS pay scheme under Agenda for Change, of which we are an early implementer, or 'pilot' site.
We have just received our new scales and most posts have been downrated by aprox £5k!! We are trying to get in touch with any teams employed by the NHS to discuss this ridiculous and potentially damaging situation with far-reaching effects, as these scales are to be rolled out nationally. If you are, or know of anyone who is in this position, please contact us urgently so that we can co-ordinate our challenge. We would welcome contact from anybody up to and including senior management.

Hi Dave, within our health trust (mental health) we are A&c 6's just as you and your colleagues are.
We have not got to your stage with the new bandings as prescribed by Agenda for change, but obviously the fact that South West London and St Georges NHS Trust is one of the NHS's guinea pigs has scary implications for the rest of us.

This is my last day of working for SLAM, so i suggest you contact our welfs dept lead for for our NHS trust - Carol Waylett and deputy supremo Shelley Leckey.

carol.waylett@slam.nhs.uk ; shelley.leckey@slam.nhs.uk

I know the ROYAL Free Hospital, University College Hospital; Mount Vernon in hillingdon; Royal Marsden all have welfs as NHS employees.
Some of the above are A&c 5's and are not all mental health, but for the sake of solidarity and parity amongst NHS welfs any campaigns should involve not just protecting the current A&C 6's but trying to get the A&C 5's upgraded.
As for the non NHS welfs working for eg Mind,Islington Peoples Rights, and CAB etc eg Hope Hospital - Salford, Chase Farm Barnet, Malvern, Mendip etc - could be a good time for forging links, swapping notes etc.

In an age where the free market individualism is all pervasive, how about some old fashioned collectivism.

see ya andy

I am deeply concerned by these postings, not least because I am an active member - and steward - in the prominent, very large Trade Union that represents significant numbers of workers in the NHS.

I should, in fairness, first declare that I work in Local Government, not the Health Service, so I am not affected by these changes directly. However, like all good union-activists, I read my journals, consult the union website, etc., and I was under the impression that the Agenda For Change process had been subjected to a massive consultation campaign, and had been approved by the overwhelming majority of members - across a number of unions (Unison, GMB, TGWU, Amicus, etc.). The poster seems to be implying that this has come as a big surprise, & that no consultation was involved ?

Even in Local Government, we will be subject - sooner rather than later - to job evaluation and single status schemes, and - inevitably - some will possibly lose out. It clearly isn't nice if you are the one who does.

I am no fan of New Labour, but I reluctantly accept that my "blue collar" colleagues have been disadvantaged for many years.

1. NHS WROs need to put our heads together on this, firstly to avoid one or two trusts evaluating welfare rights below its true level and then this becoming the benchmark for the rest of us. Secondly, and just as importantly, to assist Dave and colleagues in any way we can with their appeal.
2. I am saddened and angered by my union's consultation. Again it is "a prominent, very large Trade Union that represents significant numbers of workers in the NHS and local government" which held a ballot some time ago to agree this in principle because it would raise the pay of the very lowest paid. A second ballot was to be held when info came through from the early implementer sites about whether to go ahead wholeheartedly with the agenda for change proposals or not. Unfortunately, the union put the ballot out before the info from early implementer sites was available but with a recommendation to vote yes. Needless to say a 3 to 1 yes vote ensued, but would this have been so high if carried out after the full story from early implementers was available?. Initially we were told around 7% of staff would be losers but anecdotal evidence from an early implementer suggests a higher figure.

Hi Paul and Keith, i could n't agree more with what you have both said. Putting things very crudely - the impression i was given by Unison contacts was that when Alan Milburn originally met Union leaders that the Agenda for Change was a affait compli (excuse my french) and that if they didn't accept it, then the implications would be that an even worse deal would be offered.
When it came to pay current pay rises they were dependent on everyone voting for agenda for change. As the guinea pig trusts eg South West London & St Georges they were allegibly a means to iron out any problems and act as a template for other Health Trusts, again the actual reality appears to be based on spin.

In common with eg Tax credits - the official line be it government or the higher echelons of the Inland Revenue is that everything is great, when the reality is that it is not.

I feel so cynical about how the public sector is treated that i've forgotten what was the original point of this message was, but still it's heartening to know there is kindred spirits out there.

yours dazed and confused - andy

For those of us who do not work in the NHS, but are nevertheless good trade unionists, could one of our NHS colleagues translate the A&C scales into actual cash. How much does A&C 6 pay, and how much is the London weighting?

I know that other skilled workers in the NHS such as Biomedical Scientists are expected to work for appallingly low pay, but that is no argument for promoting equal misery throughout the public sector.

It is time that the public sector stopped buying old rope fropm HR consultants, accountants and the like

As welfare rights advisors we should not be accepting being evaluated below Band 6 (chaplins and counsellors have been banded 6) and we should certaily be arguing for higher with the level of legal information we hold and impart; especially if representation at tribunals is a part of the work we do.


Details are on the Unison site re rates and bandings under Agenda for Change etc.

I hope this goes to the right place as have totally forgotten how to pst replies in all the excitement. Have learned today we have had our posts uprated to AfC level 5. Victory! If anyone needs any further details (as and when available) let me know.