can anyone please help. we are a newly created RSL from LSVT and have a fledgling overpayment relationship with our council. we have had some problems along the way, but the most important is yet to come.

we are receiving overpayemnts invoices for former tenants and deceased tenants. they go to a different collection team, and their head of service has made the following decision---if there is credit on the account at termination we will refund up to this credit and no more, and if there is no credit, wwe will invoice the former tenant, if location known, and once we have collected the money from them, we will refund this, (after we have collected any of our arrears first, naturally!)until that time ,we will repay nothing against the invoice

if payment not made by us, the local authority will deduct outstanding invoices from blameless tenant, which will affect my side of the business with delays in the posting of payments on to the system etc.

Are they on a sticky wicket? the head of service believes we are doing the HB departments dirty work for them and we should not be so compliant.
can anyone advise
* is the automatic request for overpayment from us for FTA's good practice
*does the council have an obligation to consider who to recover from in case where we cannot be expected to know a person has died/done a runner etcr? do they have to show they have done?(i am aware of changes afoot on reg 101
* finally, is the FTA recovery section right...and if so can we use the same argument there is no money on a CURRENT ACCOUNT

sorry this is so long...due a "drinking at the last saloon" meeting wit HB tomorrow so any advice greatly appreciated
thanks

I'm a bit confused by your post, but there seems to be some confusion about overpayments in any case.

There are two separate issues. HB being recovered from the person to whom it was paid and, separately, any other internal admin / accounting between you as the payee and another organisation.

Where HB has been overpaid to the L/L, the LA can generally choose whether to recover from either the L/L or the claimant (there is an exception rule to this, but I'm trying to keep this simple(ish)). LAs are not supposed to have blanket policies (in fact, that is illegal), but most LAs will look to recover from the person to whom HB was overpaid.

The person from whom recovery is being sought most certainly has a right of appeal against being the target for recovery. However, the appeal right (re being the target) is strictly limited to "Judicial Review" grounds. In simple terms, the target will have to show that the decision to recover from them was wrong in law / completely unreasonable etc. However, there is nothing to stop you, as a target, also appealing against the calculation of the overpayment - the LA will have to show its overpayment is correct.

Once an LA has decided to pursue recovery from you and that goes ahead (assuming no appeal, or appeal unsuccessful etc), the arrangements you have with another party are entirely separate. Unfortunately, I just don't know enough about Housing law to offer any seriously useful comment - but I suspect much will depend on which party the tenant is legally liable to.

Hope the above at least helps as a starting point.

Regards

thanks for this
the crux of the query is whether our head of service can legitimately refuse to pay overpaid HB received after death/termination of a tenancy on the grounds that the money is not on the account. he has counteracted this with the promise that we will invoice the former tenant and if and when we get the money from them, we will repay it (after we have recovered our arrears first of course)
we knew the money wasnt due as it was received onto a terminated account, or onto an account where we havwe sone a succession to surviving spouse
regards
maggie

I suggest you also first go back to basics. The LA can only recover from the blameless tenant if they have issued all the correct notifications both at the outset of the award, and at the overpayment stage.
You can also ask for proof that each case has been considered on its own merits, as they cannot take a blanket approach.
If you have not already done so it is worth looking at the DWP guidance manual on overpayments (link via Toolkit).

Although other contributors have told you the correct information on disputing overpayment recoveries I think your main question was whether your head of service has any justification in refusing to pay back overpayments in these circumstances.

The simple answer is no. He does not have any justification when you know the rent liability has stopped.

You do not need to look into any detail over the overpayment regs the issue here is simple. Where Housing Benefit was paid to you after a tenancy was terminated (either through moving out or death) you have no grounds to dispute overpayment recovery. As landlords you are perfectly well aware that the overpayments covered a period where there was no rent liability. As such you have no right to this money. If you do not pay it back the LA can enforce debtor proceedures against you. If you deliberately refuse to repay, they can also call into question whether you are "a fit and proper" landlord. If they conclude you are not they can refuse to pay any HB at all direct to you and insist on paying only to the claimant.

Where tenants "do a runner" I.e. You are not aware that the tenant has left and retropsectively the LA terminate benefit well before you are able to terminate the tenancy, the matter is slightly different.

Because the LA can act retrospectively and you cannot, you may feel its unfair. It's possible to dipute in these cases but you will probably find it an uphill struggle. The particular circumstances of the case would have to be considered but the regs are not very much help. In the end the LA will probably argue that you "should have known" your tenant had left your property. If they can win that point then they will be able to recover from you.

derek S

thanks derek..you have put into plain English what I clumsily wanted information on and provided me with the information I need. thanks

I'm still a bit confused, but based on the info given, it doesn't seem to be an HB query as such.

Unless I've completely misunderstood (quite possible on a Monday), the issue seems to be one of internal administration between "your" dept and the "collections".

Your post indicates that there doesn't seem to be a dispute relating to the overpayment(s) as such. If that is true, then the LA isn't going to be concerned about what one department of a L/L has decided in relation to another. It is still the same L/L. Still assuming the o/p is not in dispute in itself, I don't see that the LA are doing much wrong in this case (barring arguments about the vires of the blameless tenant provision).

In deciding to recover from you, the LA should be considering the circumstances, but in cases of dormant accounts etc, I think you are unlikely to succeed in a "target" appeal unless there are truly exceptional circumstances.

Hope I've got the right end of the stick, otherwise I've just wasted a whole post....

Regards