Having thought that tax credits could not get any worse...

The latest case is a woman whose claim ceased suddenly on 07/07/2005
without notification.

When we rang up we were told that the "claim has been terminated following an investigation". No reasons are offered. If the client wants to know why her benefit has been stopped she will have to write and ask.

It is hard to imagine she will get a prompt reply, and in the mean time cannot even begin to challenge a decision she does not understand.

Sh has 2 very small childran (8 months and 19 months) and nothing but child benefit and 56.20/week to live on.

Obviously we are going to make a BIG fuss about this one, but wanted to complain here too.

Victoria.

The client has just attended for a full appointment and my colleague has confirmed that she did not even get notification of her award ceasing. (oh - and it stopped on 07/06). It is definitely terminated and not suspended.

He has also tried again to get information by phone, but we are still being told that the only way to get any information is to write.

Now obviously if this was the DWP they would have had to issue a formal decision and the claimant would have had a right of appeal... or if the original decision to award had not been superceded then they would still have a duty to pay and she could take action (i.e. court action for non-payment of debt)

However we are less clear where we stand with the IR...

We are writing for the information, and probably submitting a complaint, and involving the MP but is there anything else ? And does anyone know whether IR can get away without issuing a new decision ? We are assuming that we can challenge that at least indirectly, for instance by arguing that she still has the right to appeal, but is there anything nice and obvious we can quote at them to get a formal decision ? or pay up ?

We have no idea why the money was stopped. The "investigation" does not appear to have involved the client at all. (No chance to respond to allegations etc.) And we assume that making a fresh claim would just lead to it being suspended under a new investigation...

If anyone has any suggestions we would be very grateful for some help.
(And even more grateful if we could only be in a world where the IR acted rationally and in a way that was accountable)

Please ?

Does no one have ANY information on IR CTC requirement to issue notification ? Or ANY information about IR "investigations", and whether claimants should be involved in the process, and given a chance to respond ?

Victoria.

Victoria

The situation is covered by section 19 of the Tax Credits Act. If your client has in the past been awarded tax credits and has been issued with an entitlement decision then the IR have power to conduct an “enquiry” under section 19 but only “ if they give notice to the person……during the period allowed for the initiation of an enquiry”.

Under section 19(8) an enquiry is not complete until the IR give notice to the claimant of whether the claimant is so entitled to tax credit and, if so, the amount of that entitlement (as per section 19(3).

The claimant has a power under section 19(9) to make an application for the giving of a direction for a section 19(8) notice effecting to halt the enquiry and for a giving of a decision on entitlement and of the amount of entitlement as per section 19(3).

This is essentially an appeal to an appeal tribunal (not a tax tribunal).

This should be distinguished from an “investigation” which is an examination of a claim before an award is made or were a provisional award is made.

Regards
Paul

Its hard to know how to respond Victoria because the reason for termination could be any one of a myriad of reasons most of which have been the subject of a post on this site at some time or other. In year recovery, the computors bloody-mindedness, even some fraudster diverting the money due to her.

Have the Revenue got some idea she's now part of a couple. She's obviously a single parent and that would be one reason for instant termination. Until you get some reasons she’s well and truly scuppered and the routes you’ve taken are same routes any of us would take. Theres been a recent posting about the external relations team with some telephone numbers given. Why not try them. In the end game what about the papers, would she be willing to pursue it that way?

If its any help have a look at the following



http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/ntcmanual/changes_cofc/ntc0701117.htm
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/ntcmanual/changes_cofc/ntc0701100.htm

Forgot to add -

A section 19(8) notice is essentially a decision on entitlement and will carry a separate right of appeal. Your client may want to consider threatening judicial review to force the IR to carry out its statutory duty under section 19.

Oh, and an "investigation" as opposed to an "enquiry" carries no right of appeal. Are the IR getting confused between the two?

Thank you.

They used the word "investigation" at the helpline but admitted they had no idea what was going on. An award had definitely been made, and had been in payment.

I did wonder about them looking at her partner as she clearly mantains close contact with him (she initially confused a letter regarding his bank account with her own) though they do have seperate addresses.
Client also reports that she had no NI card stolen, so there is a possibility that her NiNo was used.

I have been looking at the compliance manual. How can they deny so much information under the freedom of information act ? Some complete sections on issues that may be investigated have been withheld.

Victoria.

This is like some weird time travel. The IR seem to be like the DHSS were back in the 1970's with the notorious A Codes (secret departmental advice). The Supp' Benn' scheme was entirely discretionary then, not being put on firm legislative footing until the Social Security Act 1980.

Do (some) IR staff truly understand that what they do is bound by legislation? If their guidance is 'legislation shy' and they think they have more discretionary powers than they actually have then they may well act with impunity and try to keep the foundations of their actions and decisions hidden from view, like the old DHSS used to do.

They would be, of course, mistaken. They may not be aware of much of the legislation but it is there nevertheless. (For instance,I've seen many people having overpayments clawed back without being sent an overpayment recovery decision which is required under section 29). I find that if you hit someone round the head with a copy of the legislation which you are quite clear about then it tends to knock them off balance. Much back tracking then tends to ensue.

I am very hesitant to suggest this, but could there be a new computer error that is terminating claims? I have a client who has not been receiving TC payments - he had been told he had an overpayment so did not question it when payments stopped. When he brought his paperwork to me there was a notice to pay amongst the documents (clear indication of a terminated claim). I contacted the helpline for information and was told they could give me absolutely no information about the claim at all, that the case has been referred to Diadem House, but they could see no reason for the referral and to obtain any information at all I would have to write to Diadem House (now been waiting 3 weeks for a reply). Client has not had any change of circumstances that would end the claim so I am baffled and there is no indication of a compliance unit investigation or enquiry. Will keep you all informed!

That sounds a bit like it !

Our address to write to is in Guild Centre not Diadem House. And the helpline were clear there had been an "investiagtion" (though this is clearly not the case as someone has already pointed out) which seems to have been more than you got.

I have had cases disappear before when NOT terminated - such as the mismatching one. And I seem to recall an article from the paper a while back about the indefinite suspensions you could get if anyone commited fraud in your name (or NiNo) as well...

Perhaps we need a support group rather than the pratical suggestions offered by this forum ?

Hi Victoria,

You mention you have been browsing through the compliance manual. This extract (www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/ccmmanual/CCM8150.htm) seems relevant if the cessation of award was due to an in year examination...

"CCM8150 - Closing the Examination

Informing the Claimant - Closure Letter

In all cases you need to send the claimant a letter informing him/her the examination is now complete and the outcome. You might have already discussed this during a meeting or a telephone call but a written closure letter is still needed. For a joint claim you sent a copy of your opening letter to each claimant so you must also send your closure letter to each of them"...and so on.

****

In the case of an end of year enquiry, have a look at the following, to be found at www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/ccmmanual/CCM14140.htm

"CCM14140 - Closing The Enquiry: Informing the claimant - enquiry

closure letter

In all cases you need to send the claimant a letter informing him/her the enquiry is now complete and the outcome. You might have already discussed this during a meeting or a telephone call but a written closure letter is still needed. For a joint claim you must send a copy of your opening letter to each claimant so you must also send your closure letter to each of them."

Seems like they need to issue a letter either way. I wonder if they will say they have issued one? Could be that the examination/enquiry is still in progress? Stopping payments need not mean an appealable decision has been reached.

Unless the Revenue are more forthcoming, I think this a job for the complaints process, and the usual JR threat, and the MP and the Waltham Forest Guardian, if the claimant is up for it (and assuming there are no facts undisclosed to you by the claimant!). All that should take most of a day, but heh, what else have you got to do!?

The general tone of the compliance manual is actually quite restrained, and this kind of behaviour does not correspond to the Revenue's professed caution.

Steve

Thanks.

Yes - we found that and indeed part that stated they should send a letter at the beginning of an enquiry. (I do not have the reference as my colleague has the print outs) They have done neither.

However we are still only assuming it is an enquiry. WHich makes it slightly harder to argue with them.

They have been very clear that the claim has been completely closed. (Though how they are clear about that while having no knowledge of what actually happened is also questionable). The helpline said she could apply again, but it is likely the claim would then be immediately suspended.

I saw her at the drop in, she has since been seen by another adviser at an appointment but I will pass on the suggestion that he spend a day on this... as you say he won't have anything else to do. I think I am already annoying him slightly because I keep asking about it because I felt particularly strongly about it(but he is following the thread here with interest).

We haven't really considered threatening JR yet. In terms of publicity it is hard to know whether the client would be interested. Or whether she has disclosed everything. I believe she has, though she is probably slightly downplaying her relationship with her husband (which is unecessary as they do live seperately. They are a refugee family, now split into two halves and living entirely from benefits - but she has been left in quite serious poverty, and has two VERY young children, so possibly some mixed feelings for her circumstances if she did ask for publicity about it.

The compliance manual was fairly reasonable, but I was quite shocked to see that we aren't even allowed to know some of the reasons they may stop benefit.

They have yet to respond to the letter asking for details.

Well - they have still not replied to our letter asking for letters. Or to the letter the local MP sent.

They have just sent her a letter saying "Welcome to your thrid Tax Credits Update" complete with glossy brochure....