I understand that yet another version of the short DLA claim pack is to be piloted, this time in Bootle and Manchester DBCs from the end of September. Has anybody there seen a copy of the new pack or been told how this one will differ from the Glasgow and Wembley ones? I have asked for a copy, but it will be a month before I get one and I'm just so over excited I don't think I can wait that long.

I've seen a photocopy of the new claim pack to be pilotted in our area.

Firstly there's a bit of debate going as to which colour it should be, because the original proposed colour posed difficulties to colourblind people.

Secondly, I feel that it doesn't leave enough space to properly describe the effect of a particular disability and contains a lot of leading questions which may be a barrier to members of the public who have no prior experience of tackling these types of claim forms.

Anyhow, the pilot is being thrust upon us and I can see a lot more appeals on the horizon.

if you have a copy that you could fax to us, we'd be happy to consider publishing it

our number is 0207 247 9924

cheers - shawn

Shawn.

Sorry I havn't got a copy of the new form, but if you phone Bootle DBC in Liverpool - 0151 934 6000 - and ask for customer services, I'm sure they'll send a copy.

Possibly not, as far as appeals go.

The experience of the other pilots and of the short AA form is that while the level of awards remains broadly similar, the number of appeals lodged falls by a third. The DWP claim that this is because people get to speak to decision makers and thus have a better understanding of why they don't meet the criteria. There is no evidence to support either of these claims. My own suspicion is that, because the form appears so much less challenging, people don't seek help from advice agencies or support workers with completion and so don't have anyone to turn to when their claim fails and also have less understanding of the criteria than they would have if they'd had help.

But there's no proof to support my theory either as the DWP have steadfastly refused to do any research into why the number of appeals falls when a shorter claim pack is used. Something to do with the mouths of gift horses, I suspect.

Anyone got a copy of the form they could post me - I'd be happy to cover your costs.

Just received out batch and told to use them from W/B 29/08/05.

Don't like it one little bit!! This could be that i'm so used to the old one of course!

I actually feel clients will find it more complicated than the other, it's certainly not as short as the AA one - only time will tell.

Someone has very kindly agreed to send me a copy of the form, so no more scrounging, but just one more query.

In the past the pilots have always been "voluntary" in that claimants could decline to take part and insist on being sent the standard claim pack. This right was theoretical only because claimants were not informed that they were being sent a different claim pack, much less that they had a right to refuse. But the report on the AA pilot revealed that there had been a lot of concern at the DWP that it would fail because local advice agencies would be hostile and insist on using the standard packs, thus reducing the number of participants in, and value of, the pilot. In the event advice agencies simply accepted whatever forms they received and use of the pilot form was over 90%.

Does anyone know if the Bootle and Manchester pilot is voluntary?

The information sheet we got with our pilot forms says that we're in the catchment area for a "full operational trial," it goes on to say that we should stop using the old forms from w/b 29/08/05 for a period of three months.

There's nothing about it being compulsory but also nothing about being able to carry on using the existing forms if we want to.

Would probably need to ring Bootle and ask what would happen if we carry on using the old forms.

At this time i have no plans to do this.

have spoken with customer services at Bootle DBC who have refused to send a copy of the form to an org outside the pilot area

so, if any org within the pilot area would like to send us a copy .....

Shawn,
Bootle have just told me they've got no forms and to ring back next week. I'll try and get someone else to send you a copy to post on this site.

Steve H.

hi stephen .... cheers for the offer ... in fact just got an email to say that one's on the way to us ... i'll get it scanned in and published as soon as it's received - thanks again ... shawn

We received our batch of forms yesterday with an instruction to ONLY use the pilot forms from 29/8.
The form itself looks like a nightmare!
There are tick boxes naming types of aids for example getting out of and into bed hoist, monkey pole, bed raiser, other. It then asks
"Tell us how aids or equipment help you. If you are unable to use them without help, tell us what help you get from another person. If you use any other aids or equipment tell us about them"

Nothing about what help you NEED or REASONABLY REQUIRE it leads the client to tell how they obviate their needs.

And I don't like the maroon, pink, purple combination!

here we go .............

thanks to alban at age concern, a copy of the pilot form and accompanying notes can now be downloaded here ...

• Bootle/Manchester pilot - DLA form
  
• Bootle/Manchester pilot - accompanying notes

And for those of you who don't have time to wade through the new form, a few highlights include:

The new 'short' form is 43 pages long, and the number of boxes relating to care and mobility needs which a claimant has to consider, including tick boxes, has risen from 158 in the current pack to a staggering 307 in the new pack.

Many more estimates of how often claimants need help and how long for are now required. For example, in relation washing and bathing the current pack has 9 boxes for claimants to put information in, including one set of frequency questions. The new pack has 28 boxes including 6 sets of frequency questions.

Claimants are now expected to state whether their walking speed is:

Approximately 51 metres or more a minute
approximately 40-50 metres a minute
under 40 metres a minute,
Other

They also need to explain whether they walk with, amongst other things, a ‘slight limp’, a ‘heavy limp’, a ‘shuffle’ or a ‘stagger’.

The new claim pack also contains a great many more questions about aids and adaptations than the current pack, with tick boxes for the use of items from monkey poles to shoe horns.

On the other hand, the free text box for the claimant to “Describe in your own words the problems you have and the help you need” which appears on most pages in the current claim pack has been almost entirely removed from the pilot pack. In essence, the DWP have switched to claiming DLA by numbers.

You can read more about the new pack and our own crazed conspiracy theory about what the motives behind it are at:

http://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=628

Meanwhile, if Maria Eagle or anyone at the Modern Service Working Group feels able to explain how its come about that last week a shorter, simpler DLA claim pack was 'in the best interests of disabled people' but this week a longer, more complex one is in disabled people's best interests, they would have my total attention.

There is a move to eventually introduce some form of electronic medical report for DLA along the lines of the one now used for Incap Ben. It would be quite permissable to assume that this pilot form is in some way connected to that, given the abundance of tick boxes. How is it that the claim form for AA has been (over) simplified yet this one has gone down the opposite path.........

Yes- and as one of my colleagues here has pointed out, the 'complete in black ink and don't use tippex' thing suggests the form will be read electronically, and we all know what problems that causes with Tax Credit applications. Another of my colleagues has pointed out that the form refers claimants to the 'additional information' section with alarming frequency- there doesn't seem to be room for essential information. Does anyone know if this is going out for national consultation?

At the risk of being shot down in flames here, I am pleased to see that they have got questions asking about needing "encouraging or reminding" in relation to personal care - it's the first time that I've seen these sort of mental health issues recognised explicitly.

Are they making it more and more "simple" as they roll out each new pilot? The Glasgow forms still follow the same format as the old forms, and allow you to write most of it in your own words, but whilst I do like the prompting re:mental health issues, there's nowhere for you to explain anything. And how come you get the lovely purple ones? Ours are grey and just look like they've been very badly photocopied!

Completed my first lovely purple form yesterday.

When just reading it i don't think i fully took in the complete lack of invitation to explain why you have ticked certain boxes.

The spaces at the bottom ask if there's "anything else you want to tell us about." Implying that if you've ticked a box you don't have to explain why.

I filled em in anyway with explanations as to why the client had ticked certain boxes but can see that if a client does their own they might not.

This would lead to a complete lack of information about the client's needs due to their disability.

I thought the new form is too aesthetically difficult with all those tick boxes. It is confusing and people will get lost. By the time they get to page 10, they'll have squares floating in front of thier eyes!! I wondered if the form is (or will eventually be) designed to be, at least partly, computer read (use black ink and no correction fluid???). That would be a worrying development.

Claimants are being asked to assess themselves, which we know usually leads to under statement of needs.

The form seems almost exclusively geared to those with physical disabilties. There's virtually no mention of mental health, except in needs for supervision, but there's more to a MH disablement than supervision.

It would be interesting to know if any disabilty advice or welfare organisations were asked to contribute or comment on the new form before release....??

I am one of the people who was consulted on the new forms at draft stage, and I must say is a great deal better than the first effort we had sight of.
I focussed on deafness as that is the area I cover, but other people looked at other aspects. we manged to change the information requested to some extent and many suggestions ( but not all) were taken onboard ,and now wait to see the evaluations so further changes can be suggested / made.

Had a client today who had obtained his DLA form from the local JCP offices. The form is the old one (not the pilot one).

I rang JCP and asked if this was ok - the person i spoke to had no idea a pilot was in progress and said he would have to get back to me.

JCP duly rang back. Apparently the pilot forms have only been sent to us, JCP can continue to issue the old form to clients.

I just do not see what the sense of this is, either we're in a pilot area or we're not?!

Anyone else in the pilot had the same experience?

We've been piloted for over a year now (Happy Birthday to us!)and it's been the same - you can put in either form. If you phone Blackpool they send you the old ones, or we can get the new ones from Glasgow DBC. I'm not sure that they can actually refuse to process a claim just because it's on the wrong form for the area - that would be a nightmare to police.

I'm actually getting to quite like our new ones, and feel quite protective towards them, especially now i've seen the purple ones!