Hi –

Just making sure we've got our head around the new ESA rates ….

So how it looks to us is that …

Basic allowance –

• in the main phase of the benefit, the means tested version of the basic allowance is paid at £60.50 for single people and lone parents, and at £60.50 or £94.95 for couples
• in the main phase the NI based version is paid at one rate ... £60.50
  
• basic allowance is paid, in both the means tested and NI versions, at a reduced rate during assessment phase for certain claimants

• Carer, Enhanced Disability, Pensioner and Severe Disability Premiums are paid at same rates as IS/JSA
  
  (Although Pensioner Premium is paid net of any work-related or support component in the main phase of the benefit – ie it's worth 63.55 for a single pensioner during the assessment phase, but then falls to £39.55 if s/he then qualifies for the work related activity component, or to £34.55 if entitled to the support component)

• Work-related and support components are paid, in main phase, at £24 and £29 for both the means tested and NI based versions.

Just to clarify - does this mean if you are 23 having paid NI - you get £47.95 for first 13 weeks - then £84.50 once you qualify for work related?

And then if you do not qualify for NI version would you only get £71.95?

Also, if you are a couple claiming where both are sick - could both eventually get £84.50 if both get CBESA? And then what happens about IBESA?

Hi Ash,

Think you are right about the under 25 year-old contributory based ESA claimant.

However, i think a post 13-week assessment phase under 25 year-old means-tested ESA claimant awarded the work-related activity component will also get £84.50.

In terms of your example contributory based ESA couple, as they can claim individually, they would get £84.50 each.

Whether they would qualify for means-tested ESA would be down to how they fare in terms of any other income and savings.

Getting back to Shawn's original posting, do people think we've got it right in terms of the basic allowance, premiums and components?

Shawn, I think your analysis of the rates is correct (although I haven't looked in detail at the complexities of the Pensioner Premium).

Aidi, on your first point, yes.

On your second point, i don't understand? Both the income-related and contribution-based ESA are paid at the same rate, following the 13-week assessment phase. So it's either £84.50 for work-related activity group people, £89.50 for CB-ESA people, and £102.10 for IB-ESA people. (all single claimants)

On your third point, as far as we know, a couple both entitled to CB-ESA can receive their respective entitlements. For IB-ESA, you would simply calculate their applicable amount as normal and remove the 2 CB-ESA payments.

Otherwise, with a couple who could both be potentially entitled to IB-ESA, they need to decide who will claim and they will recieve payment on this basis. So if you had a couple whereby only one was eligble for the support group, that should be the person who is encouraged to claim as the couple will recieve a higher rate of ESA.

Hope that helps?

Regarding the rates of ESA, they look right to me, with the tiny caveat that the Support Component and Work Related Activity Component can be paid immediately (without having to wait for Main Phase), if the client is terminally ill, or subject to linking.

Steve

Can you just clarify for me whehter I've got this right?

A couple on income-related ESA will, in the main phase get the couple basic rate plus one WRAC if one of them satisfies the criteria and two WRACs if both claimants have limited capability for work. If one has limited capability for work and the other is in the support group then they would get couple rate basic alowance plus one WRAC and on Support component?

No, it is an either/or situation. A couple in the main phase would be eligible for the couple rate of basic allowance, plus the component that relates to whichever group the claimant is placed in (work-related activity group or support group).

So when you ask "If one has limited capability for work and the other is in the support group", the answer would be that they will recieve the component payable to whichever one elects to become the prime claimant as we understand it. We aren't entirely sure what happens if you have two people who are both entitled to CB-ESA though, if they also have a residual entitlement to IB-ESA as well. I will be trying to find out and will let you know.

Hi Paul,

My understanding is that members of a couple can both get full CBESA, if they both independently qualify, which would mean two lots of component payments. I don't know why I think this, except that I do not recall seeing anything that would prevent it. This surely makes sense, because CBESA is designed to ignore anyone else apart from the claimant.

Such a scenario would minimise/wipe out any contemporaneous couple IRESA award, since I assume all the CBESA would count as income, yet at the same time, only one lot of component would be added to the IRESA applicable amount. What a clunky mess. Further, if the same couple do not in fact get any IRESA, and then claim HB/CTB, the CBESA awards would be income, but there would be no disability premium in HB/CTB (para 11 General Information Bulletin HB/CTB G3/2008).

In another thread you referred to the unfairness of the components being single rate only, especially when compared to the auto couple rates paid in premium cases. Very unfair!

What do you think?

Steve

Just realised that in my comments on HB/CTB, the value of the component(s) in CBESA cases would be added to the HB/CTB applicable amount.

Steve

I'm not sure on the couples with both entitled to CB-ESA Steve. I haven't had a chance to have a thorough enough go through the regs for some of these points.

Thing is, when we were in discussions with DWP a few months back, they were referring to couples needing to decide who would be the primary claimant as this would decide whether they were entitled to the support component or work-related activity component. But given the contributory principle, I can't see how they could deny both members of a couple claiming CB-ESA if they have paid sufficient contributions.

I'll get back to you as and when i'm any clearer on this.

More thoughts from the wilderness

Regarding income related ESA Enhanced Disability Premium - this is payable under the same rules as IS ie entitlement to higher rate care (as we all know) BUT ALSO if the claimant qualifies for the support component after 13 weeks. Its in the schedule.

This would mean, I guess, that at 14 weeks a person entitled to contributory ESA should be assessed for entitlement to income related. Should then receive the contributory basic + support component + income related EDP. Otherwise they'd be loosing out (might loose out anyway if not entitled to income related ESA).
The question is will this be done automatically?

Any ideas out there?

Margaret

What makes you believe that at week 14 the DWP would be inclined to re-assess? My understanding is that when you make your telephone claim for ESA, the officer asks whether you want to be considered for CBESA or IRESA or both. Your response decides your fate. If you have gone for CBESA alone, there would be no reason for the DWP to re-visit this decision, simply because you have reached Main Phase. I can see that the auto allocation of EDP to IRESA Support Group members boosts the possible applicable amount such that some CBESA people could come in from the cold, but I have not seen any commentary to say this will prompt a DWP review.

Presumably it will require clients to make an IRESA claim at this point, if it becomes a possibility. How will they know? Easy... they will have you to tell them!

Cheers Steve. Why did I think DWP might do it automatically coz I'm a nice person and hope springs eternal!!!!! P-)

What about the situation then where a person claims both CB/ESA & IR/ESA but is only entitled to the CB/ESA to begin with. My thought would be that a bring forward date / note should be put on the case, rather like mortgage claims. The difference being of course no-one knows which component will be payable. It will only be a small number that fall into this category eg those in the qualifying period for DLA, nevertheless these are the folk who need most help.

On your last point, if only they were so lucky....we know there are lots of folk who don't seek advice, don't always know its available and are come across when someone else has said "I think you need some help" by which time they've missed out on lots.

M.

Hi there M,

It is s5 of the Welfare Reform Act and reg 146 of the main regs that apply.

It is possible to establish an 'advance award' for IRESA, which does not pay at the start of the claim because income exceeds applicable amount, but entitlement is later triggered by the arrival of a component, just like mortgage costs and waiting periods, as you say. You raise a slightly different question though, of what if the start off claim is for CBESA only? Section 5(1)(c) of the Welfare Reform Act seems to lock out CBESA from the party - am I right? If this is correct, then affected claimants should try to ensure they claim IRESA only.

Steve

CPAG have compiled a useful summary of comparisons of benefit rates at http://www.cpag.org.uk/esa/CPAG_ESA_rates_analysis_April2008.pdf and I've conducted a similar exercise in a spreadsheet format with the addition of a summary of the notional cash differences which Shawn has uploaded to http://www.rightsnet.org.uk/pdfs/ESA_and_IB_IS_rates_compared_2008_04_16.xls. (corrections and comments welcome)

Particularly pertinent are the amounts payable to couples in the Income Based scheme. Partners of claimants need to be aware of the different amounts payable which would appear to bite if the partner takes a job for 12 weeks or more. If the job ends after that protected period period looks like they'd be eligible for the new (often lower) amount.

Hi Al

I think I may have spotted an error but I could easily be wrong! I believe edp is always payable if you get high rate care DLA - both in the assessment phase and the main phase. The support component is just another route to it. Therefore, for example on weeks 0-12 page, single person entitled to means tested assistance WRAC route (and in receipt of high rate care) would get £60.50 plus edp ie £73.10 and therefore the shortfall in the difference (3) column should only be £25.85. If I am correct the error repeats in various places.

Interested to see if you agree.

Daphne

Daphne

You're correct. The spreadsheet requires another 2 rows to cover the WRAC route/HRCC combination. I'll post a revised version to Shawn later.

Further to Paul's post of 7.4.2008, I have been pondering the business of couples and the single rate of component payment. After staring at Reg 67 without blinking for some time, it is absolutely clear to me that two sick members of a couple will only get one component, if they are claiming IRESA.

But for two sick people, both claiming CBESA, I remain more hopeful. Reg 67(1) is about IRESA. Reg 67(2) seems to ensure that CBESA pays the same basic award as IRESA. It links to s2(1)(a) of the Act, which is about basic awards. The component payments of ESA are addressed by s2(2) and s(2(3) of the Act, which is outside the effect of Reg 67(2).

Therefore, if Reg 67(2) does not bind CBESA to IRESA in terms of components, then we should only be left with effectively Reg 67(3), in terms of what components should be paid in CBESA cases. All that does is talk about the amount of component that is paid, by nodding to paras 12 and 13 of schedule 4. So if Reg 67 does not influence matters, surely we must refer back to s2 of the Act. I cannot see anything there load limiting a couple to one component, if they are both claiming CBESA individually.

Paul, do I need to get out more?

Steve

here's alan's updated spreadsheet ...

http://www.rightsnet.org.uk/pdfs/ESA_and_IB_IS_rates_compared_2008_04_25.xls