Morning,

I spoke to a client yesterday who was asking about eligibility for HB. Background is that she sold her property for approx £90K 8 years ago and moved into rented sheltered accomodation.

Client showed me bank books which show regular large withdrawls of cash. When questioned she said she hadn't had the money but her daughter did her shopping etc for her so she gave her her bank card and PIN number so she could get the money. On further questioning it appears the daughter has just been helping herself to my clients savings without the clients permission and the savings have gone from over £90K 8 years ago to £8.5K now.

My client is elderly and gets confused and is very anxious and panicky. She does not want to get the police involved despite my advice that she should do. My client no longer has any involvement with her daughter

In this case, do you think my client would be eligible for HB or would the LA treat this as deprivation of capital?

It's the first time I've come across this situation so not sure of the best course of action.

Regards

John

Hi John

Without pre-empting HB’s decision in any way, on the facts as you describe them this is not, in my view, a case of deprivation with a significant operative purpose of getting HB. You should provide a good written account of events and get medical evidence of her medical conditions, frailty, mental confusion, etc. Can you also evidence the current relationship between client and daughter? If you have to go to tribunal then she will be judged by her credibility as a witness.

Lastly, if you consider £200 per week as reasonable expenditure on food, utilities, rent, council tax, etc (as well as a reasonable social life) over 8 years then that comes to £83,200 so a balance of £8,500 might not seems unrealistic after all.

Regards
Paul

Thanks for your comments and advice Paul, much appreciated.

There will be no problems getting medical evidence of her conditions. With regards to obtaining evidence of the relationship with her daughter, I can get a statement from my client but the relationship with her daughter has broken down to the extent that she has made an appointment with her solicitor to change her will so her daugher is no longer included so I don't hold out any hope of getting anything from the daughter.

I'm hoping to be able to provide enough information and evidence so that we don't have to go to tribunal. If it does end up at tribunal, my client has already said that she won't go, she would rather do without as the thought of a tribunal terrifies her and would have a detrimental effect on her health. If it comes to that I am hoping to persuade her to continue with the appeal and I will attend the tribunal without her, which I know isn't ideal but I strongly feel that she shouldn't be penalised because she has trusted her family with her money.

Regards

John

You also need to consider what other income she has / had.

There is a serious and related issue here: "..it appears the daughter has just been helping herself to my clients savings without the clients permission".

Such a scenario falls within the scope of your local authority's multi-agency adult protection policy:

http://www.northyorks.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=1228&p=0

A multi-agency case meeting would be convened (including you) to formulate appropriate action and protect the victim. The outcome of the investigation would itself, I would have thought, demonstrate that there had been no deliberate deprivation of capital. It would also establish the true facts of the case, which aren't always as they first appear in some instances.

Unfortunately, this is not an uncommon situation and should be reported as not only has your client lost the capital, she is now faced with the HB appeal and there may also be potential for more than financial abuse if the relationship has now broken down.

As an aside, did the daughter hold (or still hold) appointee status with the DWP for benefit payments? If so this should be revoked.

Fri 03-Oct-08 02:34 PM by stalbansbens

I very much doubt that, on the facts as presented, a Local Authority would treat this as deprivation, but obviously it may depend on whether they accept the claimant's explanation.

Would your client qualify for Pension Credit? If so, I would get her to claim this - if she is awarded Guaranteed Credit then she would be 'passported' to Housing / Council Tax Benefit and the LA couldn't consider deprivation even if they wanted to.

Plus, and this is the good bit, the Pension Service wouldn't be able to consider deprivation if most of the spending occurred before the Pension Credit scheme came into existance, because it can't be argued she was spending the money to obtain something which didn't exist at that time.

I know it is a short notice, but ideally your client needs to make her claims this afternoon (or at least over the weekend) otherwise she is going to be subject to the three month backdating limit which comes into effect next Monday.

Just an update for you.

Have made a claim for HB and CTB. Have spoken with the HB manager and have a statement from the client regarding the capital and the HB department are happy with this and have assured me that it is not deprivation of capital so there will be no probs with the claim. I did the claim and delivered it on Friday along with a backdate request, I am getting a letter from her GP to confirm her health issues to support this.

Client won't qualify for Pension Credit as income too high (has state pension and occupational pension) but will qualify for a substantial amount of HB.

Have checked the rest of her details and have ensured that state pension and occupational pension are paid directly into her bank. She has an appointment at the bank today, where she is going to speak to someone who is going to help her change her pin number so her daughter, who currently still has access to the account no longer is able to withdraw money. She asked me to change her pin number but I felt it would be better if I didn't and if the bank did it with her.

She is happy with situation as it is now and just wants to forget about the money her daughter has taken as she gets very distressed when the subject is broached. With my clients permission, I have explained the situation to the scheme manager of the sheltered housing scheme where she lives and have asked that the manager keep an eye on things.

Have I covered everything or is there anything else I should be doing in this situation?

Once again, many thanks for your help and guidance on this matter

Have a good week

Cheers

John

Just a thought, have you thought about attendance allowance? If received possible passport to pension credit via SDP. Could solve a lot of problems!!