stable, flexible and responsive, says Paymaster General.

Anyone else noticed this new improved tax credit system because it seems to have passed me by!!!

I'm seeing fewer tax credits claimants than a year ago, and I have had more success through negotiation and complaints also.

I think it would be fair to say the system is a litte more stable and becoming responsive, but I think it still lacks in flexibility (especially for some of the long-outstanding issues).

What really interests me though, about the PG's statement, is that for a long time she denied there was any problem with the system at all. Remember that she rejected outright the reports of the Ombudsman and the Adjudicator's office...?

Now it's getting better, she can be a little more honest as it is setting her in a bit more positive light.

I can't agree that it's becoming responsive.

We still have far far too many clients telling us that they've reported changes that have either taken months to action or have not yet been actioned at all.

Especially with relationship breakdowns - clients do as we tell them and inform TCO straight away, the joint claim continues to be paid even though they've been told it will stop. Client is told a new form will be sent out and it never is.

We currently do not have any forms left and have had no success getting anymore so far.

Unfortunately i've yet to notice any improvement at all. I'm looking forward to it happening - very much so!!

HUMBUG!

the problems do seem to shift around the revenue like an attack of scabies...is anyone else experiencing problems with with getting termination of WTC awards, on ceasing work?

i have two cases at the moment, one who stopped work in August, one in mid October, and although the Revenue are aware of the c/circs, they are still making payments, which are overpayments and will be recovered. on the former, the Revenue told him not to spend the money, and told our adviser that there was a computer problem, if the c/circs was not reported on the day of change???!!! his JSA has been reduced by £63 a week taking account of WTC.

single parent has been nilled for IS, and has just been told by Revenue call centre that they are stopping ALL her tax credit payments, to recover the WTC overpayment.

Seen the latest?

To alleviate hardship caused by the rate of recovery of OPs, they announced in the big reform package a new system for implementing reduce repayments. It was going to be automatic. Now they've come clean and said their computers can't/won't be able to do it automatically. So people will get their old unaffordable deductions, plus a nice letter telling them they do have the right to have levels reduced, provided they ask for it, so that a manual adjustment can be made...

lol! yes - hi tech sounds like such a good idea for public services, but it always ends up in the style of 'Dad's Army'...

I used to be just an old fart but now I'm turning into Victor Meldrew...

Client telephoned TCO Summer 2005 to tell them her only child had finished her FE course and left college. It was entered on the system as if she'd never been at college; she was a lone parent working under 30 hours, so overpayments for 2003-2004, 2004-2005 and 2005-2006 of course resulted - total about £5k.

She eventually sought advice; we put in a late appeal against the entitlement decisions, which was settled in her favour in autumn 2006. End of the overpayments? (pause for manic and cynical laughter)

She has now received a letter from the recovery office threatening her with legal action if she doesn't pay in full inside less than a week. TCO adviser line acknowledge that the entitlement appeals settled in her favour mean that there is no overpayment in existence - but they say that they cannot instruct recovery office to stop action. They have "no way in" to the system to do so. The only thing she can do, they say, is fill in an overpayment dispute form TC846 from a COP26.

The threatening letter was on her doormat when she got home from work on Friday. She has suffered enormous distress through the weekend. She considered chucking in the towel and paying as much as possible and trying to reach an arrangement for the rest. Her elderly father offered her his savings towards doing so. And now the victim is required to put THEIR mistake right for them.

Stable and responsive??

I DO NOT BELIEVE IT!!

And btw - the threatening letter said they would begin action in the Sheriff Court, and suggested advice from Citizens Advice Scotland, etc. Has someone moved Hadrians Wall 100 miles south while my back was turned?

I've had a couple of clients threatened with proceedings in he sherifs court! ....another 200 miles!

You should write to them, threatening to report them to the police for demanding money with menaces. I'm only half joking!

It's good we can rant on here or i think i'd blow up!!! I'm only half joking too!

A client i've got has been treatined appallingly and we've complained to the adjudicator, however it just gets worse.

The client rang the "helpline" and told them husband's wage has gone up significantly, client then gets an award notice showing the correct amount.

1 week later they get more award notices and his wage has been put back to the old amount!!!!

UNBELIEVABLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Stable = horse bolted

Flexible = it means whatever I mean it to say

Responsive = I'll answer you back if you complain

But didn't dear Dawn put down an MP the other day when he/she had the temerity to raise an issue about a constituent's tax credits by saying they should stop whinging (my word) about individual cases and only think about the greater good that tax credits have done?

So are all these claimants who are stressed and traumatised by the incompetence beneath her notice, I wonder? How secure is the ivory tower?

Ah! that wondrous thing 'the greater good'. The individual is nothing, the collective is all. The mantra of authoritarians throughout all history. Off with her head!

Dawn Primarolo should consider herself fortunate that she earns enough to avoid becoming a victim of tax credits - over six million families aren't so fortunate (and those are just the ones that claim).

Helped to get into debt...?
Helped to get depressed...?
Helped to ...??????


A lot of people are put off claiming now and I've had a few enquiries recently from people who are stuck in the system and told by the IR that they can't get out of it when they say they want to stop claimaing.

You're right Tony - alot of people are put off claiming, we've definately had that experience.

If i were elligable for tax credits i would not claim.

does anyone know what the policy is on recovery through court action?

and on the relocation of scotland issue, i've just seen a letter threating action in the sheriff court issued from Brierley Hill in the west midlands. for queries, it advises to ring and ask for the sheriff court section. which i did. the person went away for a while to ask someone, and came back to tell me that it was a system error, and no, they are not called the sheriff court section.

Don't know about policy but we've a couple that have got as far as being issued with the summons.

Both clients have defended the action and so the courts have asked the TCO for all details of the overpayments....and so we wait!

Hadrian's wall runs through water as well. Here in Northern Ireland our clients have also been getting letters about the Sheriff's Court, but we have raised this with our local debt recovery unit and have been assured the letter for NI client's will be amended to state Magistrate's Court (which is the relevant court in this jurisdiction). I do have information on how the process works and what to do if there is an ongoing overpayment dispute when legal action starts, but my information is only relevant to the NI system, which apparently is different to the rest of the UK and so not much use to most of you using this site. However, I obtained my information by ringing the local debt recovery unit (number supplied on a "notice warning of legal proceedings" that a client brought in). I spoke to the HMRC court officer, found out when the next cases were listed at the local court and went along to observe the proceedings. The court officer was happy to meet with me after the proceedings and answer all the questions I had about the process. Maybe your local HMRC debt collectors coud be just as friendly!

: ) it's worth a try! it was a bit hopeless this morning - it seems a lot of the staff were on strike. oh dear!

tax credit overpayments seem to have gone mad this week and i'm rushed off my feet with urgents. it's rather looking like HMRC are having a clear out of old o/p cases from 2004/05 year, and the court recovery action is highly automated. they only just realized this system error in the last few days, i was told.

on this particular case client knew nothing about the alleged o/p and wouldn't even have known they are taking her to court except her husband's solicitor faxed copy of his court letter to her solicitor. Seems they sent one to her but at her old address. HMRC have known her new address at least from August, and i have an invoice from Cumbernauld to prove it! (different overpayment.) but it wasn't on the system at Brierley Hill. they told me that previous letter was sent (to old address) in JULY, and didn't know whether any other correspondence had been sent, as there are two computer systems and she didn't have access to the TCO system.

a six months gap in contact, out of date address records and a highly automated and geographically challenged computer system sounds like a bad recipe for, what was it - stable, flexible and responsive...lol!

At a (Scottish) friend's Burns night supper on Saturday there was an interesting discussion about the Caledonian diaspora, and how many folk across the planet claimed some relevant ancestry - especially when the whisky is flowing. (No - my only known Scottish relative is a sister-in-law, and no, I wasn't wearing a kilt; my sartorial nod to the occasion was a pair of paisley underpants)

But I hadn't realised that the crafty Scots were using HMRC as avehicle to spread a brand of juridical imperialism quite so widely...

But seriously - if HMRC can't get the little things right, what hope can there be of ever sorting out the big 'uns?

For the avoidance of doubt (as m'learned friends say) I WAS wearing other things besides the aforementioned garment...

I was wondering!! Visions of you just in paisly undies!!! LOL!