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Top Decision Making and Appeals topic #1254

Subject: "A8 national & Right to Reside" First topic | Last topic
PaulMacklin
                              

Appeals Officer, Manchester Advice - Manchester Town Hall
Member since
22nd Jan 2004

A8 national & Right to Reside
Wed 02-Aug-06 08:37 PM

Desperate for an argument for an appeal next week for a Polish national, a single parent who has no history of work, i found the recent article in the Welfare Rights Bulletin 186 p.7 & 8.

At page 8 under 'Resident here for the last two years'it states: "The habitual residence test including the the right to reside test is only applied if the person has been here for two years or less...The two year test is not law but policy". My client has been in the UK for over 2 years.

If anybody has a reference to the above policy - none is given in the WRB article - or any alternative arguments, they will be gratefully received!

  

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Replies to this topic
RE: A8 national & Right to Reside, SLloyd, 16th Sep 2005, #1
RE: A8 national & Right to Reside, PaulMacklin, 16th Sep 2005, #2
      RE: A8 national & Right to Reside, SLloyd, 16th Sep 2005, #3
           RE: A8 national & Right to Reside, jj, 16th Sep 2005, #4
                RE: A8 national & Right to Reside, PaulMacklin, 19th Sep 2005, #5
                     RE: A8 national & Right to Reside, SLloyd, 19th Sep 2005, #6
                          RE: A8 national & Right to Reside, PaulMacklin, 28th Sep 2005, #7
RE: A8 national & Right to Reside, s.oneill, 30th Sep 2005, #8
RE: A8 national & Right to Reside, PaulMacklin, 19th Dec 2005, #9
      RE: A8 national & Right to Reside, Martin_Williams, 22nd Aug 2006, #11
           RE: A8 national & Right to Reside, graham_bazley, 04th Oct 2006, #12
                RE: A8 national & Right to Reside, Damian, 04th Oct 2006, #13
                     RE: A8 national & Right to Reside, graham_bazley, 04th Oct 2006, #14
                          RE: A8 national & Right to Reside, Martin_Williams, 04th Oct 2006, #15
                               RE: A8 national & Right to Reside, graham_bazley, 04th Oct 2006, #16

SLloyd
                              

Welfare Rights Adviser/Trainee Solicitor, Thorpes Solicitors, Hereford
Member since
03rd Feb 2005

RE: A8 national & Right to Reside
Fri 16-Sep-05 12:26 PM

I had a case where a similar issue did arise (although on the facts of that particular claim the appeal was withdrawn). In fact I spoke to the author of the article on the CPAG contract helpline and it seems that the only basis for this is a press release sometime ago. I think I still have a copy of it on the clients file and I may be able to find it for you if you want it. Let me know.

  

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PaulMacklin
                              

Appeals Officer, Manchester Advice - Manchester Town Hall
Member since
22nd Jan 2004

RE: A8 national & Right to Reside
Fri 16-Sep-05 02:50 PM

Yes - i would be grateful if you could fax me a copy on 0161 234 3320. The appeal is on Monday morning.

thanks!

  

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SLloyd
                              

Welfare Rights Adviser/Trainee Solicitor, Thorpes Solicitors, Hereford
Member since
03rd Feb 2005

RE: A8 national & Right to Reside
Fri 16-Sep-05 03:28 PM

I have found an HTML copy that the DWP sent me. This is a cut and paste copy but I can e-mail you the original if you let me have your e-mial address before 5pm today (our server is being shut down for maintenance):




Media Centre / Press releases archive / DSS Press Releases archive / June 1999 / Press Release

14th June 1999


Habitual residence test reforms provide fairer access to income-related social security benefits


People returning to the UK from living abroad are to get fairer access to benefits - but tough action to prevent 'benefit tourism' will continue, it was announced today.

The reforms to the Habitual Residence Test follow a Departmental review and take into account a recent European Court of Justice judgement.

Social Security Minister Angela Eagle said:

'Taken together, we believe these measures will result in fairer access to income-related benefits and will streamline the administrative process, while ensuring security against possible abuse of the benefits system by those with no real links to the UK.'

The main reforms:

UK and other nationals returning to the UK from any country overseas who are re-establishing their ties can be accepted as habitually resident immediately upon their return;


The social security system will continue to be safeguarded from possible abuse by people with little or no connection to the UK;


The period when habitual residence enquiries are made will be reduced from five years to two years;


Improvements will be made to the administrative process.
In answer to a Parliamentary Question from Oona King MP (Bethnal Green & Bow) Ms Eagle said:

'The Government has now concluded its review of the Habitual Residence Test and has identified a package of measures to produce a fairer and more efficient test. The test was introduced by the previous Government to tackle the perceived phenomenon of 'benefit tourism'. However to date the majority of people adversely affected have been UK nationals.

'It is right that our social security system should be safeguarded from abuse by people with little or no connection to the UK and we will continue to do this. Clearly though it is also important to ensure that income-related benefits are available to UK nationals and other nationals who have strong and legitimate links to this country.

'This Government believes that the package will address these two concerns. We have accepted a recent judgement of the European Court of Justice which has made it clear that people returning to the UK from an EU member state and re-establishing their ties here should be treated as habitually resident immediately upon their return.

'However we believe it would be wrong to limit this important principle to people returning from a member state of the EU and have issued guidance to staff administering the test advising them to extend the effect of the judgement to people returning from any country overseas and re-establishing their ties here.

'We also propose to legislate to add to the categories of people who are to be treated as habitually resident those people who are brought here from an area of civil unrest or who are deported to the UK. Otherwise, subject to any guidance which may be given by the House of Lords in Nessa v The Chief Adjudication Officer(1) The Secretary of State for Social Security(2), a decision on which is awaited, the Habitual Residence Test will continue to apply to seek to prevent abuse by those who do not have the appropriate ties to this country.

'We intend also to reduce the period when habitual residence enquiries are made from five years to two years and to introduce administrative improvements.

'We will trial a standard proforma, with a view to national implementation, to facilitate a more consistent approach to information gathering and decision making on cases requiring habitual residence action. We will also monitor the effects of how the test now operates.

'Taken together we believe these measures will result in fairer access to income-related benefits and will streamline the administrative process, while ensuring security against possible abuse of the benefits system by those with no real links to the UK.'





Notes for editors top of page



The European Court of Justice cased referred to is that of Mr Robin Swaddling, a UK citizen who lived and worked in France for several years. When he subsequently returned to the UK, his claim for income support was refused because, before claiming benefit, he had not completed a sufficient period of residence in the UK to be considered habitually resident. The European Court decided that a requirement for an appreciable period of residence should not be a determining factor in a decision as to habitual residence for people such as Mr Swaddling ie people who were once habitually resident in the UK; then moved to work in another Member State and became habitually resident there; and subsequently returned to seek work in the UK where their family live.


The Nessa case referred to concerns the application of the requirement for an appreciable period of residence in determining habitual residence where the person concerned came to the UK having previously lived all her life in Bangladesh.


Latest figures (April 1998 - March 1999) show that some 113,000 claims to Income Support and income-based Jobseeker's Allowance were subject to the Habitual Residence Test. Of these 84% of claims were found to be habitually resident and 88% of claims from UK nationals were successful. Approximately 18,500 claims did not pass the test, of which some 10,500 claims were from UK nationals.




Press office: 020 7238 0866
Out of hours: 07659 108883
Public enquiries: 020 7712 2171
Website: www.dwp.gov.uk

All information on this site was correct at publication and is subject to © Crown Copyright





  

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jj
                              

welfare rights adviser, saltley & nechells law centre birmingham
Member since
21st Jan 2004

RE: A8 national & Right to Reside
Fri 16-Sep-05 05:53 PM

beauty!!!

jj

  

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PaulMacklin
                              

Appeals Officer, Manchester Advice - Manchester Town Hall
Member since
22nd Jan 2004

RE: A8 national & Right to Reside
Mon 19-Sep-05 10:55 AM

Thanks v much for that SLloyd.

The chairman reserved judgement and should get the postal decision by the end of the week. He said he will allow leave to appeal regardless of the decision.

I eventually found the link via google - the Angela Eagle statement is buried 2/3rds of the way within this:

http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk/pa/cm199899/cmhansrd/vo990614/index/90614-x.htm

In addition to the Hansard statement & press release, i also submitted the WRB article and the CPAG handbook p.703 with it's reference to the 'two years', as supporting evidence.

cheers

  

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SLloyd
                              

Welfare Rights Adviser/Trainee Solicitor, Thorpes Solicitors, Hereford
Member since
03rd Feb 2005

RE: A8 national & Right to Reside
Mon 19-Sep-05 02:30 PM

Good luck. Please put up a post to let us know how you get on!

Steven

  

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PaulMacklin
                              

Appeals Officer, Manchester Advice - Manchester Town Hall
Member since
22nd Jan 2004

RE: A8 national & Right to Reside
Wed 28-Sep-05 11:47 AM

Appeal allowed!

The DWP have already requested Reasons...

  

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s.oneill
                              

Homelessness Services, Sheffield City Council
Member since
30th Sep 2005

RE: A8 national & Right to Reside
Fri 30-Sep-05 05:53 PM

The HRT test does not apply in such a case.

Did the aplicant register for housing before May 2004? If so she might be caught by the transitional arrangements. If not, does the applicant have children in school? If so the ECJ case of Baumbast applies and would overrule the A8 criteria.

  

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PaulMacklin
                              

Appeals Officer, Manchester Advice - Manchester Town Hall
Member since
22nd Jan 2004

RE: A8 national & Right to Reside
Mon 19-Dec-05 09:36 AM

Just an update on the above case and many thanks again to Stephen Lloyd for supplying the info i needed at the 11th hour.

The DWP chose not to pursue the appeal to Commissioners after viewing the Chairman's reasons and IS is now in payement for my client, backdated over a year. This must be a rarity for an A8 national with no work history. Obviously very pleased with this result, and i think my client is still in shock!

On a slight down side, the Chairman has since said that had he been aware of the decision 'D' vs Sec of State at the time of the hearing, he probably wouldn't have allowed the appeal. Forgive me for being a bit thick (and it is a Monday morning), but its not immediately obvious to me having read 'D' why it knocks down the '2 years or less' argument for A8 nationals. The local DWP were also certainly aware of 'D' by the Chairman and still chose not to pursue the appeal to Comms.



  

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Martin_Williams
                              

Appeals Representative, London Advice Services Alliance- london
Member since
21st Jan 2004

RE: A8 national & Right to Reside
Tue 22-Aug-06 10:07 AM

ummmm.....

I can't see how once a decision has been made that a claimant who has been here over 2 years does not have a right to reside then an Appeal Tribunal could possibly allow it simply because the DWP should never have made enquiries into hab res/r to r issues in the first place.

(one may however be able to prevent them making such enquiries before a decision is made on the basis that to do so does not accord with stated policy....)

Generally one would only go and look at the policy intention behind the legislation if it was ambiguous. It seems to me absolutely clear that there is no ambiguity whatsoever in the legislation itself about when the R to R test applies or whether it applies to A8 nationals who have been here over 2 years.....

Of course I could be wrong.

Martin

  

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graham_bazley
                              

Advice Worker, East Bristol Advice Centre
Member since
21st Jan 2004

RE: A8 national & Right to Reside
Wed 04-Oct-06 08:38 AM

I have been following this thread with interest for some time.

I have a polish client who has been in this country for over two years, for some of this time he has been working.

In a letter from JC+ it states that:

"...............the 2 years for HRT is an adminisative instruction and the right to reside element is timeless." This was in reply to a letter in which I questioned whether or not the test should have been applied to him in the first place.

My collegaue has pointed out to me that the claim form only asks about people who have arrived in the Uk during the previous 2 years.

Any ideas/suggestions would be most welcomed.

graham

  

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Damian
                              

WRO(Health), Salford WRS
Member since
23rd May 2005

RE: A8 national & Right to Reside
Wed 04-Oct-06 09:50 AM

What are the rest of his circumstances Graham: is he sick, single parent, has a partner, claiming JSA or IS?

  

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graham_bazley
                              

Advice Worker, East Bristol Advice Centre
Member since
21st Jan 2004

RE: A8 national & Right to Reside
Wed 04-Oct-06 03:25 PM

Single man attempting to claim JSA.

graham

  

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Martin_Williams
                              

Appeals Representative, London Advice Services Alliance- london
Member since
21st Jan 2004

RE: A8 national & Right to Reside
Wed 04-Oct-06 03:34 PM

Best advice:

1. Get a job for about 10 hours a week.
2. Register under the workers registration scheme.
3. Claim JSA to top up, claim HB etc.....

Alternatives to check- family member of a worker?

  

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graham_bazley
                              

Advice Worker, East Bristol Advice Centre
Member since
21st Jan 2004

RE: A8 national & Right to Reside
Wed 04-Oct-06 03:39 PM

Thanks Martin, he is applying for numerous job and has already registered under the worker scheme.

graham

  

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Top Decision Making and Appeals topic #1254First topic | Last topic