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Top Decision Making and Appeals topic #747

Subject: "EMP as witness at appeals" First topic | Last topic
Damian Walsh
                              

Welfare Rights Officer Salford City Council, Salford Welfare Rights Service, Salford
Member since
11th Feb 2004

EMP as witness at appeals
Fri 24-Dec-04 08:49 AM

I am considering trying to get an EMP to attend an appeal hearing so I can question him on his report on my client. I was thinking of just writing to him and asking him to attend. Has anyone ever tried to get an EMP to attend to be questioned before?

I have read reg 43 of the Decisions and Appeals Regs but I'm not sure how to get a chairman to use this power except on adjourning a hearing. I've had them do this before to summons investigating officers and once a policeman but I'd expect any request for adjournement in my current case to be turned down.

Any advice on this would be appreciated.

Happy Xmas to everyone including elderly Cornish contributors.

  

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Replies to this topic
RE: EMP as witness at appeals, Damian Walsh, 06th Jan 2005, #1
RE: EMP as witness at appeals, northwiltshire, 19th Jan 2005, #2
RE: EMP as witness at appeals, david fernie, 21st Jan 2005, #3
      RE: EMP as witness at appeals, nevip, 21st Jan 2005, #4
RE: EMP as witness at appeals, carol_laidlaw, 24th Jan 2005, #5
      RE: EMP as witness at appeals, Emmab, 31st Jan 2005, #6
           RE: EMP as witness at appeals, Damian Walsh, 31st Jan 2005, #7
                RE: EMP as witness at appeals, carol obeirne, 01st Feb 2005, #8
                     RE: EMP as witness at appeals, andyplatts, 01st Feb 2005, #9
RE: EMP as witness at appeals, JamesW, 07th Feb 2005, #10

Damian Walsh
                              

Welfare Rights Officer Salford City Council, Salford Welfare Rights Service, Salford
Member since
11th Feb 2004

RE: EMP as witness at appeals
Thu 06-Jan-05 01:33 PM

Okay looks like no one has ever done this before which might be because it is a particularly bad idea but I think I'll give it a go anyway.

Anybody know what expenses an EMP could claim if he attended as a witness? Would it be the £27.50 for a half day?

  

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northwiltshire
                              

welfare rights officer, c.a.b. n.wiltshire
Member since
26th Jan 2004

RE: EMP as witness at appeals
Wed 19-Jan-05 12:03 PM

Sounds interesting keep us posted . If it works I will try for our local ICB decision Maker.

  

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david fernie
                              

WRO, Appeals Section, Glasgow City Council
Member since
14th May 2004

RE: EMP as witness at appeals
Fri 21-Jan-05 12:25 PM

There was one occasion when an EMP was called by a tribunal as a witness in one of our cases in Glasgow.

Unfortunately it was before my time so I don't know all the details but all parties were given the opportunity to question the delightful EMP. The doctor has since stopped working for the DWP.

Sorry I can't be of any further help.


David

  

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nevip
                              

welfare rights adviser, sefton metropolitan borough council, liverpool.
Member since
22nd Jan 2004

RE: EMP as witness at appeals
Fri 21-Jan-05 01:59 PM

I can just imagine the doctor when handing in his resignation mumbling to himself "I didn't offer my services to the DWP only to be hauled in front of a tribunal to explain myself". Unlike claimants then! Ha, ha, ha!

  

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carol_laidlaw
                              

welfare benefits adviser, Local Solutions, Liverpool
Member since
02nd Mar 2004

RE: EMP as witness at appeals
Mon 24-Jan-05 05:48 PM

I would also be interested in hearing how you get on. I don't know anybody who has summoned an EMP as a witness, but have often thought this is what's lacking at disability appeals. Please let us know if you think it was useful to have the EMP at the appeal hearing.

  

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Emmab
                              

Caseworker, North Kensington Law Centre - London
Member since
26th Jan 2004

RE: EMP as witness at appeals
Mon 31-Jan-05 03:22 PM

I would be a bit cautious about asking a (potentialy) "hostile" witness to attend.

Even "friendly" witnesses can have a devestating impact on a carefully prepared case. Imagine what a hostile one could do!

Although I imagine you have your particular reasons for considering it in this instance. It still seems like quite a high risk stategy to me.

  

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Damian Walsh
                              

Welfare Rights Officer Salford City Council, Salford Welfare Rights Service, Salford
Member since
11th Feb 2004

RE: EMP as witness at appeals
Mon 31-Jan-05 03:36 PM

In the end the EMPs report did not have to be considered in this case and they made an award of benefit on the appelants evidence.

I agree that it is wise to be a bit cautious but personally I think Welfare Rights officers are too cautious about witnesses from 'the other side'. Claimants evidence gets tested when they are questioned by tribunals but EMPs bung in reports but do not get questioned about where their conclusions come from. If they have put in a report at odds with what the claimant claim then the damage is done and I do not think we should be scared to test their evidence.

  

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carol obeirne
                              

welfare rights unit, cardiff council
Member since
20th Jul 2004

RE: EMP as witness at appeals
Tue 01-Feb-05 07:51 AM

How about writing to an EMP for further clarification on his/her report? This would allow the representative to question any moot points and obtain further evidence which could be put in front of the tribunal.
might try it myself sometime.

  

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andyplatts
                              

Team Manager, Welfare and Employment Rights Servic, Leicester City Council, Leicester
Member since
11th Feb 2004

RE: EMP as witness at appeals
Tue 01-Feb-05 11:35 AM

One thing to bear in mind, the EMP may come across as a very good witness ie eloquent educated etc and the Tribunal may be even more minded to accept what he says.

Also, there is very little chance of the EMP being able to remember anything about the client in question and I think the Tribunal will accept this as EMPs do not as a rule carry out examinations with any expectation of being tested on it in a Tribunal later.

Remember the golden rule ofadvocacy, never ask questions you don't know the answers to!

  

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JamesW
                              

Social Security Representative, Free Representation Unit, London
Member since
24th Dec 2004

RE: EMP as witness at appeals
Mon 07-Feb-05 10:10 PM

Have you considered CIB/4137/2001 where Commissioner David Williams considers (as para. 24) that it may render a tribunal unfair to refuse a request for a summons of an EMP?

  

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Top Decision Making and Appeals topic #747First topic | Last topic