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Top Decision Making and Appeals topic #1052

Subject: "Computerised Unsigned Medical Reports" First topic | Last topic
Steven
                              

Welfare Rights Service, Queens Cross Housing Association, Glasgow
Member since
27th Jan 2004

Computerised Unsigned Medical Reports
Tue 10-May-05 03:10 PM

Anyone know of any useful case law or other reference material on the use of computerised evidence without a signature, as per the unsigned IB85 in incapacity cases?

  

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Replies to this topic
RE: Computerised Unsigned Medical Reports, Essie, 11th May 2005, #1
RE: Computerised Unsigned Medical Reports, ken, 11th May 2005, #2
RE: Computerised Unsigned Medical Reports, stephenh, 11th May 2005, #3
RE: Computerised Unsigned Medical Reports, Mansfield, 07th Jun 2006, #4
      RE: Computerised Unsigned Medical Reports, nevip, 07th Jun 2006, #5

Essie
                              

specialist support worker, LASA
Member since
02nd Feb 2004

RE: Computerised Unsigned Medical Reports
Wed 11-May-05 11:27 AM

In my view IB85 is a legal documents that in appeal cases ends up before a court ( tribunal etc) and the court has to make a judgement on its contents. I don't know if this will help, but in CDLA/4127/2003 commissioner Williams was looking at a case where an EMP completed the original DLA 140. Later another doctor from SEMA send the form back to the EMP for further clarification. EMP amended his own findings by crossing out what he had written before and then with a pen (or was it a pencil!) wrote the new stuff, which were not to the advantage of the claimant. He did not sign it. Commissioner is not very happy about the whole thing and says that the unsigned new document with its alterations brings the whole of the medical report in to question.

  

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ken
                              

Charter member

RE: Computerised Unsigned Medical Reports
Wed 11-May-05 11:54 AM

A summary of CDLA/4127/2003, together with a link to the full decision itself, is available via the briefcase area of rightsnet.

NB - The above link will not work as from the 23 May.

This is because a new version of rightsnet briefcase will be launched with our subscriptions service, providing fully searchable and cross referenced summaries of commissioner's decisions.

  

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stephenh
                              

Welfare Benefits Worker, Arrowe Park Hospital CAB, Wirral, Merseyside
Member since
18th Feb 2005

RE: Computerised Unsigned Medical Reports
Wed 11-May-05 02:36 PM

Iv'e been bashing on about this issue on another thread in the incapacity related issues. Still havn't lost an appeal, so can't take a case to the commissioners yet.

  

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Mansfield
                              

LSC Welfare Benefits Supervisor, Mansfield CAB
Member since
13th Feb 2006

RE: Computerised Unsigned Medical Reports
Wed 07-Jun-06 01:14 PM

I have a case that involves an altered IB85 that was computer generated, but not altered by the original EMP but by someone else. We applied to the Commissioners stating that this created a 'false instrument' citing Section I of the Forgery & Counterfeiting Act 1981, and the Tribunal should have taken account that this report was a flawed medical report and given it the appropriate weight accordingly.
Suffice to say the Secretary of State rejected this argument but I have now rec'd directions from the Commissioner that an oral hearing should be held at a local Magistrates Court!
I'd be grateful for any help or pointers on this;
(1) I didn't know Commissioners held oral hearings outside London
(2) Are there implications to be gleaned from the fact the
direction is for the hearing to be held in a Magistrates Court.
(3) I have never represented at an oral hearing before the
Commissioners, so any help about the procedure would be helpful
too.

  

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nevip
                              

welfare rights adviser, sefton metropolitan borough council, liverpool.
Member since
22nd Jan 2004

RE: Computerised Unsigned Medical Reports
Wed 07-Jun-06 02:13 PM

In my view, CDLA/4127/2003 is still good law but for other issues regarding unsigned IB85’s then see R(IB)7/05, where the commissioner (after considering CIB/3984/04) held, among other things, that the Electronic Communications Act 2000 had no application to social security appeal tribunals and that there is no requirement for IB85’s to be signed. At para 11, the commissioner states: -

“However, even assuming that the electronic form IB85 does contain an electronic signature, section 7 of the Electronic Communications Act 2000 has no application to tribunals constituted under the Social Security Act 1998, for the simple reason that the strict rules of evidence do not apply to proceedings before those tribunals – see, in particular, the decision of Chief Commissioner Temple in R(U) 5/77 and the other cases referred to in my decision CDLA/2014/2004. The fact that the authenticity of the report is disputed therefore does not prevent a tribunal from receiving the report in evidence and it is open to the Secretary of State to establish the authenticity of an electronic signature by means of a certificate or by any other appropriate method, without recourse to the 2000 Act. I therefore cannot agree that in proceedings before appeal tribunals the procedure prescribed by section 7 of the 2000 Act must be used in every case where the authenticity of the electronic IB85 is challenged”.

  

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Top Decision Making and Appeals topic #1052First topic | Last topic