Another question on the SD premium I am afraid. I have a couple, the husband receives Incapacity benefit, he also gets industrial injuries benefit, and the wife gets a reduced state retirement pension plus guaranteed pension credit plus reduced CA (£21.59 wk). The husband is receiving DLA HRM & HRC (special rules) and the wife gets HRM and MRC. When I first saw clients they were receiving couple rate SDP and single rate CP (wife carer). They have now received a letter from BA saying can not have couple rate SDP as overlaps with CP, so have been awarded single rate CP and single rate SDP. I thought it is now possible to get both premiums without overlapping, and may even be possible for joint CP with underlying entitlement where IB is in payment. If so has anyone got any case law I can throw at the BA.

I seem to remember a similar query from someone else some months ago on this site, but cannot find it now.

Many thanks in advance.

Can't remember where previous query was either. They will not be entitled to the second SDP while the wife gets paid CA, even as a top up to reduced RP. If she were not getting any CA then the second SDP could be paid but the current CP would be lost, giving a net gain of £21.30.

But the CA is being paid. If she were not entitled (e.g. not providing care for 35 hours a week) she could withdraw her claim, Income Support would increase to account for the loss of partial CA and the above would apply. If she just withdrew her claim for CA but DWP consider she is still eligible then she will be treated as still having this income under notional income rules. Presumably this will reduce the IS by £21.59 a week but nor block the second SDP (as CA is still not being paid).

This is pretty academic as the notional income effect would wipe out any gain from getting the second SDP. So she would need good grounds for withdrawing CA claim to gain anything. Might also need to consider if there is anything on the horizon that might affect her reduced RP. E.g. her husband is approaching 65 and her RP is likely to be increased to basic £52.30. This will then extinguish payment of CA (but maintain underlying entitlement) and allow couple rate SDP and keep the current CP.

None of the above affects claiming CA (underlying entitlement) for husband and getting a CP (and 3 months backdating) on this, assuming he meets the qualifying conditions.

Sorry, should have made it clearer that the problem with getting the second SDP isn't that it overlaps with the CP but that it is blocked by the actual payment of Carers Allowance.

All agreed, in theory, but has anyone ever known Pension Credit apply notional income rules in such a case? It is PC, not IS, despite the heading.

In fact, just checked, they can't. Notional income for PC is closely defined in Reg.18. PC Regs and doesn't cover unclaimed CA.

So I would go ahead and withdraw the wife's CA claim, as well as making one for the husband, to restore the status quo ante.

Richard Atkinson

Richard - initially based my advice on CPAG handbook and DMG guide.

Had a look at reg 18. Para 1 specifies retirement pension income to be taken into account if not claimed but I understood that to refer to the situation where someone deferred claiming retirement pension only rather than providing a definitive list of what income can be taken into account as notional income.

Reg 18(6) seems to be the catch-all and I can't see how CA would be excluded in the situation where someone is giving up an existing claim rather than not taking up a potential claim ("...a person shall be treated as possessing income of which he has deprived himself for the purpose of...increasing the amount of that (i.e.e PC)benefit"). CA is prescribed as income for PC and the note to this para in the CPAG annot legislation says that the same terms and principles apply as for IS, i.e. that social security benefits are treated as income (and notional income) unless specifically excluded.

Having said all this I might not have looked in the right place (not for the first time) but would like to get this settled in my mind now.

Not sure how likely it is (or how common this type of situation is) in practice. I could see PC doing this if my interpretation is right just because the change to their circumstances (i.e. withdrawing the CA claim) might trigger them to be more alert than usual. I haven't come across this happening myself. Hope the situation is rare and I haven't given them any ideas.

Many thanks for your quick reply. With the benefit of hinesight this question should have really been on the pension credit sight.

Quite intuitive to mention the husbands pension as he will be 65 this year, so really useful info.

As BA were paying joint SDP and single CP I await the inevitable overpayment letter. Time for me to get reaquainted with official error rules I think.

Many thanks for your help.

No need to lose the second Carer Premium?

Any backdated Carers Allowance award does not effect the SDP already paid, and as the Carer Premium continues for 8 weeks after Carers Allowance stops and you can backdated Carers three months.

As long as she claims and backdates a new Carers Allowance claim every 5 month or so?