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Top Working Tax Credit & Child Tax Credit topic #577

Subject: "Tax credit appeals rarer than a singing caterpillar?" First topic | Last topic
Andrew_Fisher
                              

Welfare Rights Adviser, Stevenage Citizens Advice Bureau
Member since
23rd Jan 2004

Tax credit appeals rarer than a singing caterpillar?
Fri 03-Dec-04 03:47 PM

Seriously has anyone actually seen an appeal bundle? Speaking to our local TAS today they had no tax credit appeals at all on their books, the last figures I saw end of 2003 I think had 80 appeals heard for the whole country by that point. If anything it feels to me that the Appeals Section has cut down its work rather than increased it.

Surely someone has seen an appeal bundle????

  

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Replies to this topic
RE: Tax credit appeals rarer than a singing caterpillar?, Semitone, 18th Nov 2004, #1
RE: Tax credit appeals rarer than a singing caterpillar?, Andrew_Fisher, 18th Nov 2004, #2
RE: Tax credit appeals rarer than a singing caterpillar?, Victor Ridding, 18th Nov 2004, #3
RE: Tax credit appeals rarer than a singing caterpillar?, andyplatts, 18th Nov 2004, #4
      RE: Tax credit appeals rarer than a singing caterpillar?, Andrew_Fisher, 19th Nov 2004, #5
           RE: Tax credit appeals rarer than a singing caterpillar?, andyplatts, 19th Nov 2004, #6
                RE: Tax credit appeals rarer than a singing caterpillar?, shawn, 19th Nov 2004, #7
                     RE: Tax credit appeals rarer than a singing caterpillar?, Andrew_Fisher, 19th Nov 2004, #8
RE: Tax credit appeals rarer than a singing caterpillar?, jamantcoo, 24th Nov 2004, #9
And the prize goes to Jim of North Wiltshire!, Andrew_Fisher, 25th Nov 2004, #10
      RE: And the prize goes to Jim of North Wiltshire!, Robbo, 26th Nov 2004, #11
           RE: And the prize goes to Jim of North Wiltshire!, Peter Turville, 01st Dec 2004, #12
                WTC/CTC appeals, Semitone, 02nd Dec 2004, #13
RE: Tax credit appeals rarer than a singing caterpillar?, Rob_Price, 02nd Dec 2004, #14
      RE: totally unfair!, Semitone, 03rd Dec 2004, #16
           RE: Something similar for tax credits would be nice, Gerry2, 03rd Dec 2004, #17
RE: Tax credit appeals rarer than a singing caterpillar?, JFournier, 03rd Dec 2004, #18
RE: Tax credit appeals rarer than a singing caterpillar?, Andrew_Fisher, 03rd Dec 2004, #19

Semitone
                              

welfare rights officer, Redcar & Cleveland Welfare Rights
Member since
22nd Jan 2004

RE: Tax credit appeals rarer than a singing caterpillar?
Thu 18-Nov-04 01:13 PM

Nope! they don't exist - along with Elvis in Safeways, UFO's, lepracauns and a free lunch. Its a false rumour put out by the Inland Revenue to instil pathetic and forlorn hope in advisors and their clients-we're all doomed.

Seriously, never seen one and don't know anyone who has. Why are the Inland Revenue stockpiling these appeals?

  

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Andrew_Fisher
                              

Welfare Rights Adviser, Stevenage Citizens Advice Bureau
Member since
23rd Jan 2004

RE: Tax credit appeals rarer than a singing caterpillar?
Thu 18-Nov-04 01:19 PM

They were allegedly stockpiling overpayment recovery ones but should be processing entitlement disputes etc 'as normal' (very heavily inverted commas).

I've finally taken my now year old unwritten entitlement appeals to the adjudicator, and incidentally if you scroll a bit down the following page you may see a familiar scenario regarding those unappealable overpayments:

http://www.adjudicatorsoffice.gov.uk/12.htm

  

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Victor Ridding
                              

Welfare Rights Officer, Stockport Advice
Member since
09th Sep 2004

RE: Tax credit appeals rarer than a singing caterpillar?
Thu 18-Nov-04 02:38 PM

We have never seen one in this office either

Victor

  

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andyplatts
                              

Team Manager, Welfare and Employment Rights Servic, Leicester City Council, Leicester
Member since
11th Feb 2004

RE: Tax credit appeals rarer than a singing caterpillar?
Thu 18-Nov-04 04:29 PM

I understand that the vast majority have been settled prior to Tribunals ie about 96%.

With one of my appeals against final settlement they wrote back saying that the appeal was obviously about an overpayment really and therefore wasn't appealable. I kid you not. There are about to be some cross letters...

I am NAWRA's rep on the Tax Credits Liaison Group and like to hear about any cases NAWRA members find where you think an appeal has been settled when it shouldn't have been for whatever reason. My details are on the NAWRA pages (steering group) in Swopshop or you could go via your local SG member and they can pass it on.

  

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Andrew_Fisher
                              

Welfare Rights Adviser, Stevenage Citizens Advice Bureau
Member since
23rd Jan 2004

RE: Tax credit appeals rarer than a singing caterpillar?
Fri 19-Nov-04 08:00 AM

I've seen that standard letter too, unfortunately where it did apply but you could just tell it was going to go out anyway. Those 'requests for further details' letters from appeals officers with seven day deadlines and always 'do you want to settle? If not please report on more than 500 words why you think you have an appeal.' The trouble is that if they do go to appeal will all those letters go on the bundle? They are highly article 6 able I'd say.

And, WHAT bundle anyway?????? Surely someone has seen one?

  

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andyplatts
                              

Team Manager, Welfare and Employment Rights Servic, Leicester City Council, Leicester
Member since
11th Feb 2004

RE: Tax credit appeals rarer than a singing caterpillar?
Fri 19-Nov-04 08:47 AM

Any chance you could fax anonymised (is that spelt correctly) example copies of these standard letters? Let me know if you're able to and I'll put up my fax number.

  

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shawn
                              

Charter member

RE: Tax credit appeals rarer than a singing caterpillar?
Fri 19-Nov-04 09:01 AM

... or fax them to us and we'll publish them here ?

0207 247 9924

  

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Andrew_Fisher
                              

Welfare Rights Adviser, Stevenage Citizens Advice Bureau
Member since
23rd Jan 2004

RE: Tax credit appeals rarer than a singing caterpillar?
Fri 19-Nov-04 09:15 AM

Love to but now I can't remember which file it was on. Can Andy fax his to you and I can say then whether it's the same???

I'll keep looking meanwhile

  

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jamantcoo
                              

welfare rights worker, north wiltshire CAB
Member since
12th Nov 2004

RE: Tax credit appeals rarer than a singing caterpillar?
Wed 24-Nov-04 03:46 PM

i've got a tax credit hearing in a fortnight, first one any of us here have seen.

It concerns me that on three separate occassions my client was written to by the tax credit office and asked to submit additional evidence to support her appeal within 2 weeks.
on two of those ocassions she was asked if she would like to settle her claim, and if not, asked to state the reasons why she wanted to procede with her appeal,

Fortunately my client stated she wanted to continue and re stated her reasons for appeal each time she was asked, she responded to the enquiries promptly on each occasion. it has taken only 8 months for the appeal to go to a hearing.

I would not be surprised if most people withdraw their appeals, and if the few remaining are being stalled by demands for information.

P.S. the appeal concerns a backdate and/or date of claim issue

Jim

  

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Andrew_Fisher
                              

Welfare Rights Adviser, Stevenage Citizens Advice Bureau
Member since
23rd Jan 2004

And the prize goes to Jim of North Wiltshire!
Thu 25-Nov-04 08:07 AM

Well done best of luck do tell us what happened regarding presenting officers / chairman trying to understand a blind word of it / etc..

  

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Robbo
                              

Welfare Rights Officer, Stockport Advice
Member since
22nd Jan 2004

RE: And the prize goes to Jim of North Wiltshire!
Fri 26-Nov-04 08:12 AM

Went to a Tribunal User Group the other day, and asked if there had been any Tax Credit appeals as yet. Several sessions, was the surprising reply. Observations from the TAS point of view were that the appeal papers were incomprehensible, and representations have been made back to the Inland Revenue. The impression was given that cases coming to appeal so far have been from people simply wanting an adequate explanation of decisions made. Possibly unrepresented, too.

  

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Peter Turville
                              

welfare rights worker, Oxfordshire Welfare Rights
Member since
03rd Feb 2004

RE: And the prize goes to Jim of North Wiltshire!
Wed 01-Dec-04 03:36 PM

We have our first TC appeal submission listed for end of January. Not totally incomprehensible but ..... raises lots of interesting issues about jurisdiction. Issue is calculation of award for 03-04 on a revised decision during the tax year. There have been several subsequent revisions since that appealed and now a provisional end of year entitlement notice, overpayments, hardship payments etc. Given the passage of time what can the tribunal deal with - down to the date of decision and all that stuff!

  

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Semitone
                              

welfare rights officer, Redcar & Cleveland Welfare Rights
Member since
22nd Jan 2004

WTC/CTC appeals
Thu 02-Dec-04 01:33 PM

Just been searching for a PQ one of our MP's is pushing on our behalf and came across this question on appeals.

Supposedly, in 2003-2004 only 1090 CTC and 95 WTC appeals received by Appeals Service.


http://www.publications.parliament.uk/cgi-bin/ukparl_hl?DB=ukparl&STEMMER=en&WORDS=appeals+&COLOUR=Red&STYLE=s&URL=/pa/cm200304/cmhansrd/cm041025/text/41025w26.htm#41025w26.html_spnew2

  

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Rob_Price
                              

Principal Welfare & Income Officer, Shropshire County Council
Member since
02nd Dec 2004

RE: Tax credit appeals rarer than a singing caterpillar?
Thu 02-Dec-04 04:18 PM

We've had one here, relating to back-dating of WTC beyond 3 months. It quoted the correct legislation and we did not represent the client because, in our opinion, the law had been applied correctly, but the client had grounds for compensation for incorrect advice from the IR. The client got said compensation, the Tribunal referred the case back to IR who then backdated the claim 6 months! This probably doesn't help you, but gives an indication of the apparent mess surrounding such appeals.

  

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Semitone
                              

welfare rights officer, Redcar & Cleveland Welfare Rights
Member since
22nd Jan 2004

RE: totally unfair!
Fri 03-Dec-04 10:43 AM

Had an impulse to look at Oz websites covering Family assistance and came across something called "Act of Grace" which allows compensatory payments on

-the consideration of purely moral or humanitarian grounds,
questions of legislation producing unintended, anomalous, inequitable, unjust or otherwise unacceptable results in the particular circumstances, or
a matter not covered by legislation but where it is intended to introduce such legislation and it is desirable to apply the benefits of the proposed legislation prospectively.

http://www.facs.gov.au/faguide/guide/145.htm

Something similar for tax credits would be nice



  

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Gerry2
                              

CLS Direct Adviser, French and Co Solicitors, Nottingham
Member since
19th Jul 2004

RE: Something similar for tax credits would be nice
Fri 03-Dec-04 12:02 PM

but it will only be provided if S. Claus, Temporary Minister for Nice Things, drops it down the chimney.

  

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JFournier
                              

Welfare Rights Officer, Durham County Council, Newton Aycliffe
Member since
10th Nov 2004

RE: Tax credit appeals rarer than a singing caterpillar?
Fri 03-Dec-04 01:58 PM

I response to your facts for nation wide TC appeals I can see why this is happening.

I have appealed against a large TC OP, sorry the calculation of a TC OP (!!), sent off the appeal to the TC office (compliance) and recieved a letter back saying we had no rights of appeal. I forwarded this appeal to TAS as the IR had just dismissed it. If TAS are not willing to get involved we will be looking to JR.

Today I received a telephone call (yes, a PERSON!) to arrange an "informal" meeting to discuss settlement! I was so baffled by this that I cannot have made full advantage of probably the only time in history that a member of IR staff has contacted a rep.

He stated that there was only an "informal" decision (what is that!) on the overpayment and that we do not need to go through the appeals channel because this can be easily settled with us both having to prepare a detailed submission. I can see his point of this as a submission for this case will be hugely complicated and time consuming, but I doubt that is what he meant. I think it is more likely that he wants us to agree the OP and pay.

He also said that he could not make a decision on the last Tax year without making a "formal" decision to take action, and that as yet no penalty or interest was in place (despite the letters stating otherwise).

Has anyone agreed to have one of these "meetings"? I recon that it is just a way of trying to a) get out of the appeal, and b) holding an informal "appeal" without an independant body involved.

Anyone have an opinion?

Jennifer

  

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Andrew_Fisher
                              

Welfare Rights Adviser, Stevenage Citizens Advice Bureau
Member since
23rd Jan 2004

RE: Tax credit appeals rarer than a singing caterpillar?
Fri 03-Dec-04 02:37 PM

Not printable.

At the start of this business someone posted about how they try to fix tax appeals in the same way.

It is all utterly outside of the terms of article 6.

  

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Top Working Tax Credit & Child Tax Credit topic #577First topic | Last topic