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Top Income Support & Jobseeker's Allowance topic #4382

Subject: "Income Support Overpayment" First topic | Last topic
Leese
                              

Welfare Benefits Caseworker, Oldham CAB
Member since
08th Aug 2007

Income Support Overpayment
Wed 08-Aug-07 03:11 PM

How's this for a decision. 'as a result of the decision dated 12/07/06 an overpayment of Income Support has been made from 20/06/05 to 08/05/06 amounting to £1879.23 as shown.
On 20/06/05 or as soon as practicable afterwards client X failed to disclose the material fact that he had failed the personal capability assessment.'

hearing on 13th received DWP submission today. Just wondered when it became the clients responsibility to inform Income Support that he failed a PCA especially when no notification was received. Income Support state in their reconsidertaion decision that Albert Bridge House would have sent one and for proof they include a blank one in the submission.

  

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Replies to this topic
RE: Income Support Overpayment, Leese, 08th Aug 2007, #1
RE: Income Support Overpayment, jj, 08th Aug 2007, #2
      RE: Income Support Overpayment, ariadne2, 08th Aug 2007, #3
           RE: Income Support Overpayment, 1964, 09th Aug 2007, #4
                RE: Income Support Overpayment, roecab3, 09th Aug 2007, #5
                     RE: Income Support Overpayment, nevip, 09th Aug 2007, #6
RE: Income Support Overpayment, Leese, 09th Aug 2007, #7
RE: Income Support Overpayment, avance, 16th Aug 2007, #8
      RE: Income Support Overpayment, nevip, 16th Aug 2007, #9
           RE: Income Support Overpayment, Gwyneth, 17th Aug 2007, #10
           RE: Income Support Overpayment, avance, 17th Aug 2007, #11

Leese
                              

Welfare Benefits Caseworker, Oldham CAB
Member since
08th Aug 2007

RE: Income Support Overpayment
Wed 08-Aug-07 03:45 PM

trying to prepare a submission any ideas for Caselaw I could use to back up the clients argument that as he did not receive notification that he had failed the PCA therefore was unaware that he had received an overpayment. how could he disclose a fact that he was unaware of. assistance gratefully received.

  

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jj
                              

welfare rights adviser, saltley & nechells law centre birmingham
Member since
21st Jan 2004

RE: Income Support Overpayment
Wed 08-Aug-07 07:13 PM

CIS 4422/02 is helpful -

"The tribunal which dealt with the case ... in my judgment erred in law in failing to identify and deal with a relevant distinction between a claimant’s obligation to notify to his local benefit office as a “change of circumstances” the actions of another office of the Department for Work and Pensions, and a case such as the present where, on the tribunal’s own finding, everything that affected the claimant's benefit was being dealt with inside the same local office. In the latter case it is established on well founded authority that the requirement to disclose material changes to that office does not mean the claimant has gratuitously to notify it of the actions of its own staff."

also CIS 1887/02

" 21. It is also in my judgment a principle established beyond question that for the purposes of section 71 there is no “failure to disclose” where the material fact in question is already known to the person or office to whom, under the principle laid down by the House of Lords in Hinchy, notification would otherwise have to be made. This too I take to be axiomatic and not called in question by anything said in the recent decision of their Lordships. It may be the kind of point Lord Hoffmann had in mind when he said “a disclosure which would be thought necessary only by a literal-minded pedant … need not be made”, though perhaps a true pedant would be the least likely to think disclosure necessary in such circumstances, taking the (accurate) view that there can be no question of “disclosure” to a person or entity of something that he or it knows already."
____________________________________________


This is official error, pure and simple.
IFW is the condition of client's entitlement to IS, and the administrative arrangement is that the IB section 'manages' the incapacity claim for the IS section, who are trained on IS not IB. This means that they ensure medical evidence is submitted, consider the incapacity question, refer for medicals etc. The IB section also used to take responsibility for payments of combined Is/IB or IS/CREDITS ONLY cases... i'm no longer sure how that works now that ACT payments have been introduced, but without a doubt it is essential that the IB section are informed by the IS section of the IS interest in the claim - without it, the IB section cannot 'manage' the incapacity claim on behalf of the IS section - they are _required_ to communicate any changes which could affect IS, with the IS section. this is not law, but standing procedural instructions, which er... stand to reason.

You would have thought that some consideration would have been given to the fact that the overpayment is due to official error at the overpayment decision stage, the reconsideration stage and the appeal writing stage, but obviously not, and what a complete wasted of tax-payers money and tribunal time.

either, the IB section failed to notify the IS section of the PCA, or the IS section failed to act on the notification it received. there is a remoter possibility that the IS section failed flag up its interest to the IB section. all are official errors which result in overpayments. i expect none of these facts are provided in the appeal submission for the tribunal, who have to decide on things like causal connections between material facts and overpayments, and whether or not events were a change in circumstances...otherwise the penny might have dropped... they ought to have established as a fact whether a notification was sent to the claimant and whether a notification was sent to IS, and if so on what date...they can't rely on "would have sent one" and a blank! - they 'would have notified' IS too if they had closed the claim correctly, and IS would have stopped paying...that didn't happen either...

Your client is being billed for failing to notify the Secretary of State that the Secretary of State had made an adverse decision on his IB claim.
Grrrr!

  

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ariadne2
                              

Welfare lawyer and social policy collator, Basingstoke CAB
Member since
13th Mar 2007

RE: Income Support Overpayment
Wed 08-Aug-07 09:11 PM

The law as it stands on overpayments remians that where different offices are involved the duty remains on the claimant to inform the appropriate office. The proposition in Hinchy in the Court of Appeal that the Secretary of State must be deemd to know his own decsision fell in the House of Lords. However the fact remains that it is undoubtedly settled law that a person cannot disclose soemthing he does not know. So if the Tribunal accepts that he did not know he had faield the PCA becasue he didn't get the letter (which doesn't mean it wasn't sent) he is clear.

I bet they haven't considered whether there are grounds for finding him in any of the other categories of person entitled to income support either.

Oh, and I do hope you bunged in a late appeal against the IFW decision too. If he has leave to appeal on that he is of course entiteld to reduced rate income support until his appeal has been determined, right back to the date of the failure of the PCA, which would then fall to be offset against any overpayment even if it was recoverable....don't you just love it?

  

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1964
                              

Deputy Manager, Reading Community Welfare Rights Unit
Member since
15th Apr 2004

RE: Income Support Overpayment
Thu 09-Aug-07 08:37 AM

We have one of these running at the moment. As the same office administers both IS and IB credits (albeit the PCA decision was farmed out to another office), I can't see that our client falls foul of Hinchy. In his case, it's been a real double whammy. The PCA decision (23/11/06) states: 'You may no longer be entitled to Income Support because of your illness or disability. You will get a seperate decision about this..' Client understandably doesn't appeal because he assumes he'll recieve a seperate IS decision if he isn't entitled. This turns up 2 months later (20/1/07). On our advice, client lodges late appeal against PCA decision, which DWP initially refuse point blank to accept because it's late. After we intervene, they eventually send it to TAS who agree to accept it. In the meantime, client recieves IS overpayment notification for period 23/11/06-20/1/07. We request revision (official error) which is refused. Appeal since lodged. It just seems like such a waste of everyone's time.

  

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roecab3
                              

Franchise Supervisor, Roehampton CAB
Member since
13th Mar 2007

RE: Income Support Overpayment
Thu 09-Aug-07 09:28 AM

Hi, I have had many similar cases myself and suggest this, which have worked so far in 6 out of 7 cases

If the cl argues that he was never notified of IB decision and this is accepted then the time to appeal has not begun to run i.e. he can still appeal the IB decision see C&P Regs 32

The IB section, on receipt of the appeal, will refer to LQPM at TAS this will, if it is accpeted as late and the appeal is succesful, overturn the IB decision and remove the overpayment by reinstating entitlement to IB and thus IS

I also always mention the fact that the cl not being notified is supported by fact it appears IS where not notified when usually this is a matter of course

good luck

  

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nevip
                              

welfare rights adviser, sefton metropolitan borough council, liverpool.
Member since
22nd Jan 2004

RE: Income Support Overpayment
Thu 09-Aug-07 11:59 AM

Hmmm! Just some initial thoughts for now. Since when was failing the PCA a material fact that needed to be disclosed? Similarly, a determination that a person is not incapable of work is also not a material fact but a conclusion drawn from facts.

Failing a PCA does not of itself disentitle a person to ICB. A person may be treated as incapable under reg 27 after failing the PCA, or can be treated as incapable under regs 10-14.

In my view it is the decision that a person is not entitled to Incapacity Benefit that is the material fact that needs to be disclosed if, and only if, ICB and IS are administered by two different offices and it is clear from the IS and ICB decision notices that each one actually comes from a different office (and I am not entirely convinced of this view as I am mindful of Jan's official error argument - above). Even then Claims and Payments Reg 32(1B) arguments should be run (reasonability of disclosure, etc).

If a person is not on ICB but IS only then the situation should not arise as then a decision on the PCA is a determination for the purposes of a person’s continuing entitlement to IS on the basis of incapacity for work and the question of continuing entitlement to IS and failing the PCA should trigger an IS decision. Any failure to do so is not only official error but also incompetence of the highest order.

  

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Leese
                              

Welfare Benefits Caseworker, Oldham CAB
Member since
08th Aug 2007

RE: Income Support Overpayment
Thu 09-Aug-07 03:57 PM

Thanks everyone for your help. I think between you you have written my submission minus the clients individual circumstances. I'm not complaining. Hearing is on Monday when I'm on holiday but I'll post when I return to update.

Submission is written, amended and on its way to TAS by fax of course due to postal issues in this area.

  

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avance
                              

Principal, A M Vance & Co, London
Member since
31st Aug 2005

RE: Income Support Overpayment
Thu 16-Aug-07 12:10 PM

Hi,

Hope your appeal went okay!

I have a similar case and would be grateful for any input

On 18.03.05 my client the DWP decided my client was capable of work as she had not returned an IB50 questionnaire

However, she was not notified of this until 07.09.05

She reclaims IS and is awarded it on 19.09.05

Then on 17.06.06 she received an overpayment decision for the period 25.03.05 - 08.09.05

Unfortunately, she does not appeal the decision until 22.12.06. Meanwhile, the overpayment starts to be recovered at the rate of £8.70 pw from her ongoing claim

I then get involved and query why they consider this is a recoverable overpayment. The matter proceeds by way of a complaint

On 01.08.06 they write to me and say that the "Appeal" was successful and the overpayment had been written off.

However, they are refusing to refund the £417 that they had recovered in the interim.

I do not think this was ever a recoverable overpayment as the client had not failed to disclose/or misrepresented a material fact

If her appeal was in time then recovery should have been suspended. Does the fact that she was late in doing so prevent her from getting a refund of the recovered amount?

Thanks


  

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nevip
                              

welfare rights adviser, sefton metropolitan borough council, liverpool.
Member since
22nd Jan 2004

RE: Income Support Overpayment
Thu 16-Aug-07 02:01 PM

I agree that the overpayment was caused by official error so there is no section 71 (of the Administration Act) right of recovery. The problem you have is that, because of that, there is no higher decision (i.e. of a tribunal) to the effect that the overpayment is not recoverable.

I think your client’s only redress will be to sue for the money in the county court. I can’t see the DWP voluntarily refunding the money under these circumstances.

You might want to look at the link below for the battle I had with this and that was in a case where there was a section 71 recovery and a decision of a tribunal saying that the overpayment was not recoverable.

http://www.rightsnet.org.uk/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=106&topic_id=2170&mesg_id=2170&page=

  

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Gwyneth
                              

Caseworker, Malvern Hills District Citizens Advice Bureau
Member since
10th Feb 2004

RE: Income Support Overpayment
Fri 17-Aug-07 10:56 AM

If that blank form is taken as acceptable evidence we can have a field day! - Yes, I wrote a letter and here's the proof, a piece of my headed paper!

  

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avance
                              

Principal, A M Vance & Co, London
Member since
31st Aug 2005

RE: Income Support Overpayment
Fri 17-Aug-07 11:23 AM

Odd. thought I had replied o your message but it is not showing on the thread

Anyway, thanks for the advice

I will suggest that the client tries for an ex gratia payment and seek help from her MP/Ombudsman and if that fails she may wantto consider a county court challenge

thanks again

  

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Top Income Support & Jobseeker's Allowance topic #4382First topic | Last topic