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Top Decision Making and Appeals topic #1802

Subject: "Legal standing of DMG memos" First topic | Last topic
ali l
                              

Welfare Rights Officer, PHACE Scotland Glasgow
Member since
27th Oct 2004

Legal standing of DMG memos
Thu 31-Aug-06 08:47 AM

I was at an appeal a while ago and I used a DMG memo to support my argument, when the chair asked me what the legal standing was of the memo. I didn't know, and I still don't - but I know someone out there in Rightsnetland will

Similarly, I have another appeal coming up concernig exemption from the PCA that relies in part upon the definition of an illness given in the IB handbook for approved doctors. I take it the handbook isn't a legal document, so how binding are the guidelines it gives?

  

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Replies to this topic
RE: Legal standing of DMG memos, Saffron, 31st Aug 2006, #1
RE: Legal standing of DMG memos, JonL, 31st Aug 2006, #2
      RE: Legal standing of DMG memos, ali l, 31st Aug 2006, #3
           RE: Legal standing of DMG memos, cablou, 31st Aug 2006, #4
                RE: Legal standing of DMG memos, hain, 01st Sep 2006, #5
                     RE: Legal standing of DMG memos, Martin_Williams, 05th Sep 2006, #6
                          RE: Legal standing of DMG memos, hain, 05th Sep 2006, #7

Saffron
                              

Welfare Rights Worker, Saffron Resource Centre, Leiecester
Member since
25th Apr 2006

RE: Legal standing of DMG memos
Thu 31-Aug-06 10:36 AM

ive just been looking at Cmmrs decision CIB/14332/96. Have a look at para 11 and 13, there is some discussion about how to treat the IB handbook and that it can be permissable to use this inforamtion where there are problems with interpretation. Doesnt really state whether binding or not but you may find it useful.

hope it helps?

PS i did search on osscs website, ICB, sub category continence, its the last decision.

  

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JonL
                              

Welfare Rights Officer, S. Tyneside MBC
Member since
01st Mar 2004

RE: Legal standing of DMG memos
Thu 31-Aug-06 11:18 AM

If the DMG Memo contains opinion on a legal matter then it will not be binding on a tribunal. This is because only court and OSSC decisions are binding. The Memo should be classed as 'persuasive' in the same way that the opinion of a textbook writer may be, so the chair of the tribunal does not have to follow it but may do so it he agrees with it.

If you look at the beginning of Vol 1 of the Social Security Law books it goes through this area ('Using this book...'section)

  

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ali l
                              

Welfare Rights Officer, PHACE Scotland Glasgow
Member since
27th Oct 2004

RE: Legal standing of DMG memos
Thu 31-Aug-06 12:23 PM

Thanks for that.

What I was trying to get at was that the DM hadn't followed the guidelines in the DMG memo at all, and had in fact ignored a fairly significant bit of case law. I won the appeal, it's just i don't like not knowing the answer to things, especially with this particular chair.

And thanks for that decision, Saffron, it may help, although I will hopefully have enough medical evidence to prove that my client is unfit for work. It's always nice to have a back up plan, though.

  

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cablou
                              

Welfare Benefits Caseworker, Ipswich Citizens Advice Bureau
Member since
09th Aug 2006

RE: Legal standing of DMG memos
Thu 31-Aug-06 09:55 PM

I wonder if the handbook is effectively the best practice guide. I agree that it is at best persuasive in terms of the law eg definitions etc, but if the DM hasn't followed what the 'best practice' is, and there is no compelling reason why, then this could be evidence of a failure on his part. Depending on the nature of the failure it could show that his decisions could be unreliable/ if not totally wrong?

In the same vein, (pun not necessarily intended) with Doctors using the Lima guidance book, and DM's etc using other such volumes, decisions/actions that have not been made in the appropriate way, could be open to scrutiny.

What does anyone think?

Cablou

  

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hain
                              

Welfare Rights Support Officer, Highland Advice and Information Network, Inverness
Member since
09th Jan 2006

RE: Legal standing of DMG memos
Fri 01-Sep-06 11:28 AM

Basically the DMG and any guidance volume is just that - guidance.

DWP's Adjudication & Constitutional issues branch in Leeds are responsible for updating the guidance either through periodic amendments or the issue of memos and letters. the latter are usually as the result of significant legislative changes or case law decisions.

Effectively, it is a simplified interpretation of the effect of the change for DMs to follow.That is why it has no legal standing as it merely amounts to an interpretation. However, as they represent the view of the Department they may go through stringent checks for quality assurance.

So there is certainly a compelling argument if a DM failed to take account of Departmental advice, but it is not legally based. Equally, if you ask the Department for reasons for a decision and they cite "DMG para. whatever", chuck it right back insisting on the correct legal reference!!

Lorna.

  

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Martin_Williams
                              

Appeals Representative, London Advice Services Alliance- london
Member since
21st Jan 2004

RE: Legal standing of DMG memos
Tue 05-Sep-06 10:56 AM

....except where....

you get the interesting phenomena of the Commissioners specifically approving a piece of internal guidance... in which case through the Commissioner's decision it is possible to elevate it to law (depending on exactly how the CD is reasoned and the importance of the reliance on the guidance to the decision etc).

This happened in the distant past with some Supplementary Benefit Handbook notes on "living together" (the six areas etc). It then became an issue as to which version of the handbook the Court had commended and a further Commissioner had a go at that. All very amusing.

  

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hain
                              

Welfare Rights Support Officer, Highland Advice and Information Network, Inverness
Member since
09th Jan 2006

RE: Legal standing of DMG memos
Tue 05-Sep-06 11:58 AM

Oh yes, I remember that now!

  

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